Did I mess this one up?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JS 20

I disagree...

1)I definitely hit the whistle before 5 seconds elapsed so i couldn't use that

5 seconds has nothing to do with it. Once it's determined that Team B is not going to properly inbound the ball, you whistle the violation.

2) By that logic, say B2 who now has the ball gets fouled. Pretty bad to penalize team A for fouling someone when the ball wasn't even live and technically there was no team control. Just doesn't make sense to me

It makes no difference whether it makes any sense to you or not. The current 3 man mechanics on not switching for a foul in the BC makes no sense to me but I still follow them. Read the case book play and call it properly.

[btaylor64]

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

So you're saying that anything that happens just because of a "brain fart" should not be penalized?

[atcref]

It is a violation, be careful on making up your own rules. Coaches don't need any inconsistency and it is not our job to confuse players by unilaterally chaning rules that we don't like

[Texas Aggie]

I don't think 9.2.2.c speaks to THIS situation: that of a confused player but rather of a situation of a team trying to gain an advantage. The casebook said the player with the ball "makes a move toward the end line as though" he's going to make a throw in from OOB.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I don't think 9.2.2.c speaks to THIS situation: that of a confused player but rather of a situation of a team trying to gain an advantage. The casebook said the player with the ball "makes a move toward the end line as though" he's going to make a throw in from OOB.

Texa Aggie:

See my post above.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

BTaylor:

Sorry to sink your boat, BUT common sense has nothing to do with this play only logic and the rules of the game prevail here. The rules state was must be done by Team B after Team A has scored. Too bad that B1 did not follow the rules. What is good for the integrity of the game in this case is to enforce the rules.

By the way, this is also a violation under NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA rules.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Good night all.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By the way, this is also a violation under NCAA Men's/Women's and FIBA rules.

I don't think it's a violation under FIBA rules. Indeed, in the OP's situation, we are taught to kill the play and resume it with a correct throw-in from behind the endline.

Ciao

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

By the way, this is also a violation under NCAA Men's/Women's

Are you sure? Rule please?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

The Crew Chief mentality is to enforce the rules as agreed upon by the various state organizations in submitting to the NFHS. What's good for the game is to do what you're told to do and what you agreed to do when you signed up to be a ref.

What's NOT good for the game or for the kids or for anyone else involved is to just do whatever you happen to think seems like "common sense" regardless of what has been decided by the appointed, elected authoritative body. That's just plain asinine.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

The Crew Chief mentality is to enforce the rules as agreed upon by the various state organizations in submitting to the NFHS. What's good for the game is to do what you're told to do and what you agreed to do when you signed up to be a ref.

What's NOT good for the game or for the kids or for anyone else involved is to just do whatever you happen to think seems like "common sense" regardless of what has been decided by the appointed, elected authoritative body. That's just plain asinine.

I couldn't have written it better.

[JS 20]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm sure at this point that I got it right. As I said in my second post in this thread, what if the defenseive team had fouled the ball handler? Then I have to penalize them with a foul when the ball wasn't correctly inbounded? Seems to me the offense is the one the goofed. Doesn't seem fair not to penalize them.

I'm glad I called it the way I did. I think calling it the way I did is "the best thing for the game" or whatever b/c I made them adhere to the rules and that's the best thing for the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

So this is a violation according to NFHS? WOW! That is unbelieveable! Kid never steps out of bounds to attempt the throw-in (he might just have a brain fart since he is young) and it's a violation? That is horrible!!! If I have that happen in any of my high school games I will take full responsibility for the play. They can fine me, sue me, take my game check, whatever. That is not what is right for the game. Common sense should prevail here.

I'm sorry that I missed that according to rule and don't want young guys on here not knowing the rules, but there are some times that you need to step up and gain a Crew Chief mentality and ask yourself, "Is it right for the game", because the integrity of the game is what you are trying to protect. Are you protecting it by a kid making a silly mistake by not stepping out of bounds for a throw-in when he hasn't even legally stepped out of bounds to be awarded the chance to make a throw-in? I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me.

I actually thought that you were finally starting to get it, Ben. Unfortunately, I was wrong. As usual, you still won't bother learning basic rules. You refuse to try and understand why those basic rules were implemented too. It's not a matter of young guys not knowing the rules; it's a matter of a so-called official not knowing the rules, and then after being informed of the correct rule, arguing that it shouldn't be called that way and he's not going to. That's completely wrong for any official, at any age. Wrong and stoopid..

When did it become up to you to decide what rules you feel like enforcing? A definitive case play was issued. You didn't know that the case play existed. That's very telling. Hardly new but still telling. And it's even more telling when you state that you're going to ignore that definitive case play. Throwing in phrases like "crew chief mentality" and "protecting the integrity of the game" is absolutely ridiculous when you don't know the basics of officiating. Just because you heard those terms at some camp and you can now mindlessly regurgitate them here doesn't mean that you actually understand what those terms mean. You can't protect the integrity of the game by deliberately ignoring the rules of the game. It's very obvious that you don't have a clue what they're trying to teach you.

Maybe one day, some of this might make some sense to you. I've got my doubts though. Hopefully, other young officials reading this will learn something, even though it looks like you never will.

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I actually thought that you were finally starting to get it, Ben. Unfortunately, I was wrong. As usual, you still won't bother learning basic rules. You refuse to try and understand why those basic rules were implemented too. It's not a matter of young guys not knowing the rules; it's a matter of a so-called official not knowing the rules, and then after being informed of the correct rule, arguing that it shouldn't be called that way and he's not going to. That's completely wrong for any official, at any age. Wrong and stoopid..

When did it become up to you to decide what rules you feel like enforcing? A definitive case play was issued. You didn't know that the case play existed. That's very telling. Hardly new but still telling. And it's even more telling when you state that you're going to ignore that definitive case play. Throwing in phrases like "crew chief mentality" and "protecting the integrity of the game" is absolutely ridiculous when you don't know the basics of officiating. Just because you heard those terms at some camp and you can now mindlessly regurgitate them here doesn't mean that you actually understand what those terms mean. You can't protect the integrity of the game by deliberately ignoring the rules of the game. It's very obvious that you don't have a clue what they're trying to teach you.

Maybe one day, some of this might make some sense to you. I've got my doubts though. Hopefully, other young officials reading this will learn something, even though it looks like you never will.

Please provide a rule book citing please. I don't want a case play. I want someone to provide where it says, in the rule book, that a player who is not yet stepped out of bounds is illegal. I believe it is one thing when he makes an attempt to step out of bounds and doesn't get all the way out and i believe it is different when he just grabs the ball and goes. They have to step out of bounds to be given or awarded the right for a legal or legit throw-in. I don't deem the play we're talking about an illegal throw-in or even a throw-in violation because he was not at the proper spot to make a, by definition, THROW-IN.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Please provide a rule book citing please.

Why not a case book play? They carry the same weight as the rule book in NFHS, as do the interps and memos that are sent out mid-season. It's ridiculous for you to be so snitty about this. You're wrong, pure and simple. Just Get Over Yourself.