Timeout to Vent

[Nevadaref]

I'm now thinking that I saw an NFHS test question on this. I'll have to check my old tests. That's probably where I remember reading that it was the correct procedure.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'm now thinking that I saw an NFHS test question on this. I'll have to check my old tests. That's probably where I remember reading that it was the correct procedure.

Iirc correctly, it was in one of the "rules interpretations" that the FED posts annually on their web site. I usually print those out, so I might have it in a file someplace. I'll take a look later. We were definitely instructed though to charge a full TO if the head coach didn't immediately signal his preference.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Iirc correctly, it was in one of the "rules interpretations" that the FED posts annually on their web site. I usually print those out, so I might have it in a file someplace. I'll take a look later. We were definitely instructed though to charge a full TO if the head coach didn't immediately signal his preference.

Yeah, I took another look through the Rules and Case books and it's definitely not spelled out in there. Since it's how I've always been instructed (from the state) to do it, I've never really thought about where it is defined.

Would love to see the actual interp if it exists...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Iirc correctly, it was in one of the "rules interpretations" that the FED posts annually on their web site. I usually print those out, so I might have it in a file someplace. I'll take a look later. We were definitely instructed though to charge a full TO if the head coach didn't immediately signal his preference.

I just checked all of the Interps back through 2002-03 and it's not in any of those.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle

For the record and correct me if I'm wrong, I assign a full time out if a coach doesn't specify what length of time out they desire. It saves the hassel of trying to communicate with them and chase them around the players in some cases. Is this wrong?

Loudwhistle, you posted this in reply to my post about not allowing a lot of venting from the coach. Did you mis understand what I was saying? Or just trying to move the topic forward?

[tomegun]

I will ask twice, without going to the huddle, and then it is a full. I've noticed that several people mention hearing from the coach before they get to the table or it is a full. Do you realize your partners are floating in the abyss behind you?
I talk in my pregame about timeout procedures. I will:

1. Grant the timeout
2. Find out full or 30
3. Tell my partners
4. Make sure we know where the ball is going to be inbounded
5. Report the foul

It took about 100 times longer to type that then it takes, but I do things this way so my partners don't have to wait for me to report the timeout before going to the correct spot. Also, it gives the teams time to go to the huddle before the timeout starts. Maybe this is just one of my small quirks, but I don't like to wander around waiting to find out what kind of timeout it is.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I will ask twice, without going to the huddle, and then it is a full. I've noticed that several people mention hearing from the coach before they get to the table or it is a full. Do you realize your partners are floating in the abyss behind you?
I talk in my pregame about timeout procedures. I will:

1. Grant the timeout
2. Find out full or 30
3. Tell my partners
4. Make sure we know where the ball is going to be inbounded
5. Report the foul

It took about 100 times longer to type that then it takes, but I do things this way so my partners don't have to wait for me to report the timeout before going to the correct spot. Also, it gives the teams time to go to the huddle before the timeout starts. Maybe this is just one of my small quirks, but I don't like to wander around waiting to find out what kind of timeout it is.

I'm a bit confused by your statement, Tomegun - I think all of us try to find the "full or 30" bit as soon as possible. The discussion is around a coach that doesn't give that information right away.

My process is almost exactly like yours, including making sure the opposing coach knows the type of TO as well. But the coach isn't always helpful in being able to do this...

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Loudwhistle, you posted this in reply to my post about not allowing a lot of venting from the coach. Did you mis understand what I was saying? Or just trying to move the topic forward?

Rainmaker,
I was just trying to move the topic forward, (still figuring out how to post with quote, without quote, etc,) finally getting the guts to jump into these great conversations! Love reading the posts, starting to find out that reffs are some of the wittiest and crabbiest (depending on the subject of course ) people around. I never realized scrapper was as old as that picture showed (grey haired guy with a beard showed up yesterday in a forgotten post). Its been fun learning about basketball and an elite group of people, my dad has been asking me for years, why would you ever want to ref so people can ***** at you? I tell him its just like elk hunting, very challenging with lots of action, plus I get to be in the game now that I'm to old to play. I live on a small island in Alaska and reffing is a good way to get unpopular real quick! We always have the same reffs (local guys) at our games, only the teams fly in or ferry in to play our highschool.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I'm a bit confused by your statement, Tomegun - I think all of us try to find the "full or 30" bit as soon as possible. The discussion is around a coach that doesn't give that information right away.

My process is almost exactly like yours, including making sure the opposing coach knows the type of TO as well. But the coach isn't always helpful in being able to do this...

...then he gets a full. And if he didn't want one he or one of his assistants will be very quick to correct you.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

I try to both remind at the coaches meeting, and then attempt to ask on the way to the table once. If they don't respond by the time I get there, they get the full.

JDW, this is sort of what I was talking about. How many times will you say "Thirty" or "Full?" I will say it twice every time. I'm going to say it the first time to let my partners know where they need to go - this occurs after I grant it and the coach tells me what he/she would like (or not). The second time is after we (the crew) communicate what length of timeout it is and where the ball is - then I report to the table (this is the second time).
When someone says a coach must tell them before they get to the table it make be think 1) they are going all the way to the table and 2) their partners are waiting until they report the timeout to the table to find out where they need to go for the timeout. Of course, there are many times where everyone knows what length the timeout will be, but not all the time.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

How many times will you say "Thirty" or "Full?"

I only say it once as a question to the coach if he/she doesn't signal me right away - although I try to get close enough to the coach that he/she should be able to hear me when I do. I signal it to my partners, and I also say it to the table, but that isn't what the question in this thread is...

Originally Posted by tomegun

I'm going to say it the first time to let my partners know where they need to go - this occurs after I grant it and the coach tells me what he/she would like (or not).

So, do you not ask the coach at all? He/she either tells you or you just grant the full? Because if the coach doesn't tell you what he wants, you're going to have to ask him before you can tell your partners, or you're going to have to grant the full.

Originally Posted by tomegun

When someone says a coach must tell them before they get to the table it make be think 1) they are going all the way to the table and 2) their partners are waiting until they report the timeout to the table to find out where they need to go for the timeout. Of course, there are many times where everyone knows what length the timeout will be, but not all the time.

Sometimes I may get to the table before telling my partners. This could occur when I'm tableside and the call comes from the coach at the opposite end of the court. Most of the time I'm going to have gotten an answer prior to getting to the table if I'm coming from L or from the opposite side of the court.

My partners don't seem to have a problem waiting just a bit - they still find out before I report it. They usually pay attention to the players as they make their ways to the huddles, and then want to go to the appropriate spot.

I guess my confusion is simply, how do you follow your procedure and also find out what the coach wants if the coach doesn't signal or tell you right away?

[tomegun]

I ask the coach. I thought the first thing I said was "I will ask twice, without going to the huddle, and then it is a full." Everything else, I posted because I noticed that it was mentioned about a coach telling the official before the official gets to the table.

Listen, I'm not telling you what to do or any of that. I'm simply telling you that a little communication will make sure your partners can go to their spots sooner. Sure your partners don't have a problem with it, you don't miss something you never had. Can you say that having information that allows you to move to the correct spot sooner isn't a good thing? For me it is all about crew cohesion. I want the crew to operate as smoothly as possible.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I ask the coach. I thought the first thing I said was "I will ask twice, without going to the huddle, and then it is a full." Everything else, I posted because I noticed that it was mentioned about a coach telling the official before the official gets to the table.

Listen, I'm not telling you what to do or any of that. I'm simply telling you that a little communication will make sure your partners can go to their spots sooner. Sure your partners don't have a problem with it, you don't miss something you never had. Can you say that having information that allows you to move to the correct spot sooner isn't a good thing? For me it is all about crew cohesion. I want the crew to operate as smoothly as possible.

I got you now - I think we actually handle this pretty similarly. When you say you're asking twice without going to the huddle, I'm asking and looking for a response as I'm moving toward the table. I'd guess we're not that different in how we handle this.

Sorry for my confusion - I didn't put your the first post with "ask twice w/o going to huddle" and "once to my partners and once to the table" together.

Oh, and I never go into the huddle. Ever. It's not a friendly place.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I talk in my pregame about timeout procedures. I will:

1. Grant the timeout
2. Find out full or 30
3. Tell my partners
4. Make sure we know where the ball is going to be inbounded
5. Report the foul

That would confuse the heck out of me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tomegun

JDW, this is sort of what I was talking about. How many times will you say "Thirty" or "Full?" I will say it twice every time. I'm going to say it the first time to let my partners know where they need to go - this occurs after I grant it and the coach tells me what he/she would like (or not). The second time is after we (the crew) communicate what length of timeout it is and where the ball is - then I report to the table (this is the second time).
When someone says a coach must tell them before they get to the table it make be think 1) they are going all the way to the table and 2) their partners are waiting until they report the timeout to the table to find out where they need to go for the timeout. Of course, there are many times where everyone knows what length the timeout will be, but not all the time.

Sorry, Tomegun. "To the table" for me is a euphamism for getting it reported. I'm not actually getting to the table. My procedure is similar to yours, although not necessarily as concrete (although it maybe should be), and I don't have a set number of times to ask (although I normally have an answer by the 2nd time).