Block/Charge out of primary

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Let your partner live and die with it. You are not responsible for the whole court. That's why you have a partner.

I disagree, If an egregious foul happens out of my area and I happen to catch it, I'm waiting for whistle, if it's not there, I'm grabbing it.

I also think I am responsible to some extent for the whole court. I'm trail and ball goes OB on endline and my lead is looking somewhere else for any reason and no whistle, are you going to let him live and die with it?

Semantics yes, but live and die might be a little harsh.

That's why you have a partner as you say.

[FrankHtown]

Maybe Lead thought B1 flopped.

You're maybe 40 feet away...partner is maybe 10 feet away. I think I'd trust my partner on that one.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fullor30

I disagree, If an egregious foul happens out of my area and I happen to catch it, I'm waiting for whistle, if it's not there, I'm grabbing it.

I also think I am responsible to some extent for the whole court. I'm trail and ball goes OB on endline and my lead is looking somewhere else for any reason and no whistle, are you going to let him live and die with it?

Semantics yes, but live and die might be a little harsh.

That's why you have a partner as you say.

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. If a play is right in front of my partner and they had a good look, I am going to pass on that "foul" or contact as well. Sometimes we need to let our partner make calls that they are on top of. If they screw up, then that is their issue. If I am watching my partner's area and making calls, who is watching my area?

Peace

[Junker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. If a play is right in front of my partner and they had a good look, I am going to pass on that "foul" or contact as well. Sometimes we need to let our partner make calls that they are on top of. If they screw up, then that is their issue. If I am watching my partner's area and making calls, who is watching my area?

Peace

I'm with Rut here.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am going to have to disagree with you on this. If a play is right in front of my partner and they had a good look, I am going to pass on that "foul" or contact as well. Sometimes we need to let our partner make calls that they are on top of. If they screw up, then that is their issue. If I am watching my partner's area and making calls, who is watching my area?

Peace

I generally agree with this and subscribe to it, but don't you think there is an inherent flaw with this line of thinking? You aren't going to know if your partner had a "good look" until the next opportunity to talk to your partner...maybe he/she got straightlined, maybe another player or players crossed between him/her at the point of impact, maybe a bug flew in his/her eye...from the L for instance, you aren't necessarily going to know what kind of look your partner is getting at the play from C, they could be in textbook position and still not get the best look...I usually make the point in pregame that if you are 100% certain of a foul in my primary get it...don't guess, but if you are sure that it was a foul I am not getting into a pissing contest about it...just my opinion, but I think it makes us all look better...your point about "who is watching my area" is valid as well though, but I guess it comes down to the lesser of the evils?

[grunewar]

I find this type situatuion most difficult during Rec games when I'm with a very junior partner who is just learning the game. I don't want to reach into his area, I want him to call the game and know I have his back and trust his judgement. But, from where I may stand it looks bad, and both coaches look to me to make the call. Of couse, one will be happy and one not so much..... It's all judgement and situational to me. Sometimes I reach and get it, other times I defer. If I do reach though, I talk to my partner at the first opportunity and explain why.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I find this type situatuion most difficult during Rec games when I'm with a very junior partner who is just learning the game. I don't want to reach into his area, I want him to call the game and know I have his back and trust his judgement. But, from where I may stand it looks bad, and both coaches look to me to make the call. Of couse, one will be happy and one not so much..... It's all judgement and situational to me. Sometimes I reach and get it, other times I defer. If I do reach though, I talk to my partner at the first opportunity and explain why.

You know, I once had a conversation with a respected official. We discussed making calls outside your area when working with LESS EXPERIENCED officials.

The official took a stance similar to Rockyroad. However, He made a good point of always asking the LESS EXPERIENCED official what did he/she see on the play. Thus, turning it into a teaching point about how judgement can make or break an official(s) assignment status. Moving up versus not moving up.

[just another ref]

Somebody here (that person will probably identify himself) said something like:
It's okay to reach out of your primary to point out an elephant on the court, but be sure it's an elephant.

Along these lines, I have said, if you reach across the court to call one right in front of your partner, even if you're right, it kinda makes the crew look bad. If you make this call and you're wrong, it is unforgivable.

IOW, better to say, "What elephant?" than to say, "Look, an elephant!" but it turns out to be a hippopotamus.

[blindzebra]

First off the line is:

If you go fishing in your partner's pond it better be for a whale and not a minnow.

Second, as described this play ISN'T squarely in leads primary, it occurs at the FT line area so it's in that overlap area. IMO, as described, trail had the better look AND the play is coming from trails primary and the contact occurs where the primaries meet...this isn't a case of a deep trail calling a B/C in leads corner.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Somebody here (that person will probably identify himself) said something like:
It's okay to reach out of your primary to point out an elephant on the court, but be sure it's an elephant.

Along these lines, I have said, if you reach across the court to call one right in front of your partner, even if you're right, it kinda makes the crew look bad. If you make this call and you're wrong, it is unforgivable.

IOW, better to say, "What elephant?" than to say, "Look, an elephant!" but it turns out to be a hippopotamus.

I have said on this board that if you are going to call out of your area, it better be an elephant rather than an ant. Leave the ants alone and get the elephants. BTW, this is just a repeated phrase, I did not originate it.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I generally agree with this and subscribe to it, but don't you think there is an inherent flaw with this line of thinking? You aren't going to know if your partner had a "good look" until the next opportunity to talk to your partner...maybe he/she got straightlined, maybe another player or players crossed between him/her at the point of impact, maybe a bug flew in his/her eye...from the L for instance, you aren't necessarily going to know what kind of look your partner is getting at the play from C, they could be in textbook position and still not get the best look...I usually make the point in pregame that if you are 100% certain of a foul in my primary get it...don't guess, but if you are sure that it was a foul I am not getting into a pissing contest about it...just my opinion, but I think it makes us all look better...your point about "who is watching my area" is valid as well though, but I guess it comes down to the lesser of the evils?

I am not going to know every single time if my partner got a good look. This is also why I am not going to make a lot of calls in my partner's area. Also if you have done this for some time and worked a lot of 3 Person like I have and many I work with, there are certain plays and certain situations you know your partner needs help.

Yesterday I had a coach ask me about a play while I was the New Lead and my partner the New Trail passed on some contact. I knew that I had no way to make a call and I did not see what happen. It would have made our crew look really bad if I am on the end line making calls in the back court in front of my partner just to look good.

Peace