When to shoot T ???

[MidMadness]

Team A is going to the basket as time expires for the first half...Shoots lay up, misses...want foul...no foul..time is expired...picks up ball after time is expired...slams ball...I call a T...do we shoot right there...or when we return to start 3rd qtr???? Thanks in advance

[chartrusepengui]

shoot to start 3rd quarter

[MidMadness]

Time had expired???

[chartrusepengui]

Yes, the T occurred after time had expired so you will shoot to begin the third quarter and give that team the ball. The posession arrow will not change until the next JB. It's no different than time having expired, the HC says something to you while you are at the table switching arrow etc. Time has expired in that period.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Team A is going to the basket as time expires for the first half...Shoots lay up, misses...want foul...no foul..time is expired...picks up ball after time is expired...slams ball...I call a T...do we shoot right there...or when we return to start 3rd qtr???? Thanks in advance

The only time you shoot after a technical foul is committed after that period has ended is the 4th when the team entitled to shoot is behind one or two points. If the game is tied, you shoot them to start the OT. If it is more than two points or the offended team is ahead, you don't shoot the FTs because they won't impact the score of the game.

Anything that happens after the quarter has ended is administered to start the following quarter.

[inigo montoya]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The only time you shoot after a technical foul is committed after that period has ended is the 4th when the team entitled to shoot is behind one or two points. If the game is tied, you shoot them to start the OT. If it is more than two points or the offended team is ahead, you don't shoot the FTs because they won't impact the score of the game.

Anything that happens after the quarter has ended is administered to start the following quarter.

In other words... "You are where you were 'til you get where you're goin'" does not apply to the clock.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by inigo montoya

In other words... "You are where you were 'til you get where you're goin'" does not apply to the clock.

LOL...very good.

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by inigo montoya

In other words... "You are where you were 'til you get where you're goin'" does not apply to the clock.

correct - because it's always there!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Yes, the T occurred after time had expired so you will shoot to begin the third quarter

Not quite.

The T occurred after the quarter had ended, so you will shoot to begin the third quarter.

The quarter can end quite some time after the time expires (although in this instance they were the same).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by MidMadness

Team A is going to the basket as time expires for the first half...Shoots lay up, misses...want foul...no foul..time is expired...picks up ball after time is expired...slams ball...I call a T...do we shoot right there...or when we return to start 3rd qtr???? Thanks in advance

Don't forget that the kid is also bench personnel at the time of the T, since the quarter is over and we are in an intermission. That means that the T is also charged indirectly to the Head Coach and he loses the privilege of the coaching box.

[MidMadness]

Good point..Thanks

[Refneck]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Don't forget that the kid is also bench personnel at the time of the T, since the quarter is over and we are in an intermission. That means that the T is also charged indirectly to the Head Coach and he loses the privilege of the coaching box.

I've had this exact situation and was uncomfortable telling the coach he had to sit the rest of the game. Easy, I know it's the rule. However, I don't think the intent of the seatbelt rule is to punish a coach who's player gets stuck during a moment in the game when they happen to be bench personnel. IMO, the seatbelt rule is designed to punish a coach who can't control his bench area. Seems very ticky-tack for me.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Don't forget that the kid is also bench personnel at the time of the T, since the quarter is over and we are in an intermission. That means that the T is also charged indirectly to the Head Coach and he loses the privilege of the coaching box.

That's why I frequent this board, I learned something today.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Refneck

I've had this exact situation and was uncomfortable telling the coach he had to sit the rest of the game. Easy, I know it's the rule. However, I don't think the intent of the seatbelt rule is to punish a coach who's player gets stuck during a moment in the game when they happen to be bench personnel. IMO, the seatbelt rule is designed to punish a coach who can't control his bench area. Seems very ticky-tack for me.

You are entitled to your opinion, but know that the NFHS disagrees.

10.3.4 SITUATION E: Only a few seconds remain in the second quarter. Team A is advancing the ball from backcourt to frontcourt. A1 is driving toward his/her basket and is about to dunk the ball when the horn sounds to end the first half. Shortly after the horn sounds, A1 dunks the ball and hangs on to the rim. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul for dunking a dead ball. The foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach since A1 is considered bench personnel. The third quarter begins with Team B being awarded two free throws and the ball at the division line. The alternating-possession arrow is not affected and remains unchanged. (4-34-2; 5-6-2 Exception 4)

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Refneck

I've had this exact situation and was uncomfortable telling the coach he had to sit the rest of the game. Easy, I know it's the rule. However, I don't think the intent of the seatbelt rule is to punish a coach who's player gets stuck during a moment in the game when they happen to be bench personnel. IMO, the seatbelt rule is designed to punish a coach who can't control his bench area. Seems very ticky-tack for me.

(IMHO)...Bench personnel is bench personnel. What would you do if one of the players on the way back to their locker room swears @ you? Are they bench personnel? Are you going to enforce the "T" but not the loss of the coaching box?

Its still the coaches responsibility to coach his kids. If this situation has never happened to him before, his kid gets whacked, and he looses his box, well I guarantee you he will teach his kids accordingly. (They need to know that there are consequences for their actions even after the quarter/game has ended.) Its not our responsibility to consider fairness to the coach. The kid is @ fault not the official.

By not enforcing the loss of the coaching box you set up your fellow officials for failure. If down the road the same thing happens and the officials on that game administer the entire penalty correctly then the coach is going to question them on the validity of their actions!!!

There's really nothing for us to consider as far as intent goes. Did the players actions require a "T"? Yes! Were they bench personnel? Yes! Charged indirectly to the coach and he loses his box. (Losing the box is part of the penalty. We can't arbitrarily decide to set any or part of a penalty aside because we don't agree with it.) The officials didn't do nothing wrong the player did.