When to give it up...

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I realized that I had to start the game (and pregame) with a different angle....expecting to call things in the girls games that I pass on in a boys game. If I called it like a boys game, it would, sooner or later, start unraveling. Now that I've figured out what I needed to do differently, my girls games that I get go a lot smoother.

I'm at the point where my schedule is all over the place . For example last night I do a Boys Jv followed by the Girls Varsity. It was strange for me to have to make a shift that quick.

Feel like giving me ,,say 3 things ,that would help me make the transition a little smoother ?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I'm at the point where my schedule is all over the place . For example last night I do a Boys Jv followed by the Girls Varsity. It was strange for me to have to make a shift that quick.

Feel like giving me ,,say 3 things ,that would help me make the transition a little smoother ?

Last year my schedule was all over the place. One four day period I had boys varsity, girls JV (small school), girls varsity (high level) and 6th grade boys. What helped me the most was to do more pre-game and post-game mental exercise than usual. Concentrate on adjusting A/D toggle switches, rules variables, physical reactions and expectations of outcomes. And keep reminding yourself that variety is the spice of life!

[TD21]

I don't know that there are any concrete things someone can give you to help you adjust. Its different for everyone. Some people are better at going from a girl's HS game one night to a men's college game the next. Others have a really hard time with it. If you are still going to do both, then you have to find what gets you prepared before each game. Some focus on the rules differences others on the style of play. I work a variety of different levels and genders and I think the biggest difference is the speed of the game. There is no way to adjust to that. The only way to get use to it is by doing that level a lot. So if you work a lot of girls HS, for example, and only one or two men's college, those men's college games are going to seem very fast, in comparison of what you are use to. Can it be done? Sure it can. Like I said, for some it is easier than others. So if you are one that it comes easy for you have nothing to worry about, just know the differences. If your one who the change doesn't come easy for, you either have to find a way to make the transition easier or make some changes in your schedule.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Last year my schedule was all over the place. One four day period I had boys varsity, girls JV (small school), girls varsity (high level) and 6th grade boys. What helped me the most was to do more pre-game and post-game mental exercise than usual. Concentrate on adjusting A/D toggle switches, rules variables, physical reactions and expectations of outcomes. And keep reminding yourself that variety is the spice of life!

And don't toss every night. That's way, way too much adjustment for one weekend.

[jdw3018]

I only want to add onto the post to say how interesting it is that there seems to be so many places where this choice is available. I'm now officiating in the second state I've lived, and both states have the same setup for regular season varsity games - officials do either a V or JV G/B doubleheader. In Kansas, many times I'd have three games - JV B or G, followed by the V G/B doubleheader.

So, almost every time I go out it's to do two games (every once in a while there will only be one), and almost every time it's a girls game then a boys game. Guess it keeps me on my toes!!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

I'm at the point where my schedule is all over the place . For example last night I do a Boys Jv followed by the Girls Varsity. It was strange for me to have to make a shift that quick.

Feel like giving me ,,say 3 things ,that would help me make the transition a little smoother ?

Mostly, it is the point at which contact creates and advantage. It comes a lot sooner in most girls games.

To manage that, I mentally prepare for the specific game by telling myself(while traveling to the game/during pregame/during the game) and pregaming with my partner that those more marginal bumps need to be called (or not) depending on the type of game it is.


A minor handcheck on the dribbler as they come across the FT line and curl down the lane doesn't even phase most boys...they often beat the defender that is handchecking them, cut down the lane, and make a layup, a short undefended jumper, or get fouled while attempting the shot. It is my experience that most boys coaches/players would rather have this shot than the earlier foul (and the ball OOB). They prefer the advantage they had with the player going down the open lane. Calling the foul takes it away from them.

However, in a girls game, the same handcheck more often leads to a different outcome. Less often does the dribbler have enough strength to play through the contact and take advantage of having the defender in a bad position. When they're able to make the turn down the lane, they either don't have enough left to make the shot or they slow down enough that the other defenders prevent them from getting the open shot.

It is a matter of recognizing that the same contact is a foul one game but not another depending the skill, strength, and speed of the specific teams involved...and the difference between a most boys games and most girls games tends to be more substantial than the difference within the same gender.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is a matter of recognizing that the same contact is a foul one game but not another depending the skill, strength, and speed of the specific teams involved...and the difference between a most boys games and most girls games tends to be more substantial than the difference within the same gender.

I agree with this part, but disagree with the rest. The main difference between calling a boys' game and a girls' game is that a girls' game will have a lot more contact, and it's harder to determine advantage and disadvantage. I think rather than what Camron is saying that girls' are less able to "play through" contact, they actually play through a lot more. It's much much easier in a boys' game, because there's usually a lot less total contact, and it's a lot more clear which contact is a foul and which isnt. Just antoher point of view.

[daveg144]

Interesting topic. I work HS boys and girls (and a few lower level women's college) games. Obviously there is a difference in speed, physicality and airborne action between boys and girls (and men & women in college). As others have said, you learn to adjust overall between the two. However, a boys game between two very small, rural schools (or private schools) is usually played at a very different pace than urban and large schools. Not that the small schools don't have physical, high-flying fast-paced games, but typically, there is noticeable difference. If you go from the small school Friday night game to a big school showdown on Saturday, I think the difference is huge (even though both are boys games).

You have to prepare for the difference before the games (just as you might if you're switching back and forth from boys to girls).

I enjoy working boys and girls games. Let's face it, a competitive, well played girls game is usually a lot more fun to work than a 30 point mis-matched boys game, right? The point is to enjoy the games you have been assigned for what they are. In any season, you're going to have some great games between two very competitive teams. You're also going to have a lot more mismatches and lopsided affairs than the great ones. Most games are not particularly close (and often not well played). However, we are there to call these games fairly and to the best of our ability. As someone else mentioned (and the man who I took the officiating class said every week), the game you're on is the most important game in the world to the players that day. They deserve our best effort.

With all that being said, we still have to do what works best for ourselves and if you feel that working girls games hinders your ability to work higher level boys/mens games, then don't work the girls games.

[blindzebra]

Boys play vertically.

Girls play horizontally.

Call all games the same way, it's all advantage/disadvantage, once you get that clear it's not that hard.

Over thinking the difference is what causes trouble.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Boys play vertically.

Girls play horizontally.

Call all games the same way, it's all advantage/disadvantage, once you get that clear it's not that hard.

Over thinking the difference is what causes trouble.

And with that being said, what is considered an advantage and one and a disadvantage in the other is not always the same thing. This is why people have a hard time transitioning. And not knowing the differences in expectations is what gets a lot of people in trouble or makes their job difficult in the first place. This is why many people if given a choice simply choose. And there is nothing wrong with choosing. You do not have to prove to one side or the other that you are dedicated to that side of ball.

Peace

[eyezen]

Getting ready to travel to my game today so I'm going to make a couple of quick points.

1) First thanks to all who have replied, there have been a lot of very good replies in this thread, and a lot of advice can be taken from them. And thanks for mostly keeping the discussion away from girls vs boys, I was hoping it wouldn't degenerate to that and it didn't.

2) Second, remembering that the underlying point of my OP was in regards to an officials progression, in particular mine, or anybody else that is trying to move up. Had this thread been instead of HS girls basketball and mens college and replace it with JH/9th,etc and HS varsity. Would that change your response?

[rockyroad]

It would not change my reply - or it wouldn't if I had actually replied already. But I will reply now to the general topic of "when should you stop doing any particular level of ball?" To me it's a simple answer: you stop when that level of ball stops being fun for you.

If switching back and forth between levels is really causing that much stress and confusion, then stop doing it. In my career, I "quit" doing HS ball before my 5th season of small college ball - I still enjoy the HS game and still go watch a lot, but it was not much fun for me anymore because the games really are called quite differently and I wasn't handling that very well. So I made the decision to stop. I still do a few nights each season when the local assignor is really stacked up, but it was a decision that worked well for me.

So, if you're not having any fun and not enjoying yourself doing girls HS ball, then stop doing it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So, if you're not having any fun and not enjoying yourself doing girls HS ball, then stop doing it.

And this is the truest statement of this entire thread. It is not about whether it is hard to go back and forth or not. If you are not enjoying it, why put yourself through the trouble.

I used to work baseball and softball in the spring. I found that I did not have the same passion for softball, so I quit. One of the best decisions I made in officiating.

Peace

[eyezen]

Just got home, it went good. Thanks a bunch to all.

Later.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Boys play vertically.

Girls play horizontally.

Call all games the same way, it's all advantage/disadvantage, once you get that clear it's not that hard.

Over thinking the difference is what causes trouble.

There are exceptions, but for the most part I agree. My mix so far this season is roughly 60/40 boys/girls, and I have no problem at all going back & forth - even on the same night.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And with that being said, what is considered an advantage and one and a disadvantage in the other is not always the same thing. ......
Peace

True Jeff, but not just between boys & girls. You'll find the same differences depending on the level, quality & skills of the teams even if you do just boys games. Yeah I've had some girls games that were mind numbing, but I've also had boys games that were just as bad.....