The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 11:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
As I'm sure is the case in many places, we have a few refs in our association that give technical fouls at the drop of a hat. They call a good game, but are held back because they "look for trouble" when reffing and have a hair trigger as far as T's go.

We also have a few guys who haven't given a "T" in 5 years and let coaches ream them all game long without taking care of business. Again, these guys call a good game, but are rated fairly low (IMHO, justifiably so) because of their poor coach handling skills.

I'd like to put together a presentation for our refs on criteria for when a technical foul is warranted and make the game better (and when it isn't and other actions will help). While I realize that it is an art that some refs will never learn, there must be some words I can express to try to help these guys out.

Things like, "only call a T when you think it will make the game better" seem like cliches, but I do think that they might make the lightbulb go on for a few of these guys. Can you others kick in some insightful words of wisdom for me?}

Thanks in advance,

Z
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 12:05pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Houghton, U.P., Michigan
Posts: 9,953
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
As I'm sure is the case in many places, we have a few refs in our association that give technical fouls at the drop of a hat. They call a good game, but are held back because they "look for trouble" when reffing and have a hair trigger as far as T's go.

We also have a few guys who haven't given a "T" in 5 years and let coaches ream them all game long without taking care of business. Again, these guys call a good game, but are rated fairly low (IMHO, justifiably so) because of their poor coach handling skills.

I'd like to put together a presentation for our refs on criteria for when a technical foul is warranted and make the game better (and when it isn't and other actions will help). While I realize that it is an art that some refs will never learn, there must be some words I can express to try to help these guys out.

Things like, "only call a T when you think it will make the game better" seem like cliches, but I do think that they might make the lightbulb go on for a few of these guys. Can you others kick in some insightful words of wisdom for me?}

Thanks in advance,

Z
Z,
After a decade of reffin', I gave my first 3 Coach T's in about the last 2 weeks of the season. ...Not much experience at this deal.
Two Coaches yelled at me from across the floor.
One swore at me in a private conversation during a dead ball.


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 12:34pm
9 times
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. George, UT
Posts: 777
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
I'd like to put together a presentation for our refs on criteria for when a technical foul is warranted and make the game better (and when it isn't and other actions will help). While I realize that it is an art that some refs will never learn, there must be some words I can express to try to help these guys out.

Things like, "only call a T when you think it will make the game better" seem like cliches, but I do think that they might make the lightbulb go on for a few of these guys. Can you others kick in some insightful words of wisdom for me?}

Thanks in advance,

Z
There are a few automatics--getting personal, my wife, my mother, my kids, loud swearing, throwing clipboards, being overly demonstrative, calling you a cheater, walking on the court, yelling at you outside the box, etc.

Some other things that must be considered--is the coach trying to embarrass you? Will he drop something that has been discussed? Is he distracting you? Has the coach been warned? These issues need to be dealt with.

1. If a coach has been warned and continues--get him.
2. If a coach won't drop something--warn him, if it continues, see #1.
3. If a coach is embarrassing you-if you can tell him to stop and he will, fine. If it is bad enough--get him.

I believe that we must know where the "line in the sand" is and if a coach steps over it, we have to get them. If we don't take care of business, we have no credibility with them. Most coaches (with a clue) know that they deserve T's when they get them and they know when they deserve it and don't get it. We don't need to look for T's, but if the situation warrants it, we have to call it--really it is no different than any other call. If the paramenters for the call are met, we have to blow.
__________________
Get it right!

1999 (2x), 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2019
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 12:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 271
To quote from The Godfather movies
"It's not personal its just business"
Treat it like any other foul, call it when it needs to be called.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 12:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 662
Send a message via AIM to johnSandlin Send a message via Yahoo to johnSandlin
Thumbs up

I agree with the three points that stripes brought up. The only other two I would add is if the coach waves you off, then in my opinion-you have to get him. The other one would be if he insults you or your crew-then get him.
However, if you can prevent a "t" from being given, then do it at all costs.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 01:20pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Thumbs up Could not agree more.

Quote:
Originally posted by johnSandlin

However, if you can prevent a "t" from being given, then do it at all costs.
I totally agree with this statement. Always (and I mean always) try to avoid giving a T if possible. You can be totally right in giving one, but be totally wrong in how you gave one. If you can stop bad behavior by not calling a T, that is better than giving one in the first place. Usually coaches and players only need a few words said to them, and their behavior will stop. It just takes experience to know when that is and how your personality will respond.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 02:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 337
I'll be the first to admit, I've been known to give refs fits, but I find two things work very effectively with me:

1. The ref politely tells me to sit down. I find when I sit on my brain I'm a lot quieter.

2. The ref says something to me like, "that's enough, coach", or puts his hand up to me in the stop sign.

As stripes says, most coaches know when they're nearing the 'T' point.

One thing to think about, though - my experience is, giving T's is probably more indicative of a personality trait that a ref'ing preference. You may to work with both "extremes" individually to change behavior.
__________________
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

- Catherine Aird
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 02:39pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally posted by theboys

As stripes says, most coaches know when they're nearing the 'T' point.
Not most coaches. Maybe coaches that have experience at the HS varsity and college levels understand, but not the Freshman and JV coaches often times.

Just like young officials not always knowing when to give technical fouls, coaches do not always know why they get them or how to avoid them if they want to. Everything you just said worked when an official said it to you, just fuels the fire for coaches that do not understand how their actions are being precieved. I do not think I would ever tell a coach to just "sit down." Because if they do not sit down, then what do you do?

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 10:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 778
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by theboys

As stripes says, most coaches know when they're nearing the 'T' point.
Not most coaches. Maybe coaches that have experience at the HS varsity and college levels understand, but not the Freshman and JV coaches often times.

Just like young officials not always knowing when to give technical fouls, coaches do not always know why they get them or how to avoid them if they want to. Everything you just said worked when an official said it to you, just fuels the fire for coaches that do not understand how their actions are being precieved. I do not think I would ever tell a coach to just "sit down." Because if they do not sit down, then what do you do?

Peace
You are right JR, an official should not order a coach to "sit down", imo. However, I have done it a couple of times when a coach has gotten under my skin, once a couple of years ago I said to a coach who I had just T'd and they kept on "sit down and shut up" in a very loud voice. Now, I did to them what I will not tolerate from any player or coach, I embarresed them and that is not the way to go. It would be much better to say "coach, I've heard you but I've heard enough, please." or something. I have gotten away with a couple of these but have learned better ways of dealing with coaches that won't quit. Although, I had a good one happen this past summer, and the coach and I became good friends later on. I was working a youth tournament and they had accidentally entered the wrong age group somehow, so they were way overmatched and the coach was very frustrated from the start. I tried to be sympathetic, but he was sniping at me pretty good, and I had warned him twice, didn't want to T' him, and I finally lost it and turned to him and said "Coach, SIT DOWN", he did, but in doing so mouthed, but not out loud "I don't have to", I smiled and mouthed back "but, you did". He didn't like it one bit at the time and the next time he stood up and yelled at me, I T'd him and never had another problem with him the entire tournament. Not the way I would hope to handle it in the future, but it is a good story.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 11:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally posted by theboys
I'll be the first to admit, I've been known to give refs fits, but I find two things work very effectively with me:

1. The ref politely tells me to sit down. I find when I sit on my brain I'm a lot quieter.
You sound like you'd be a hoot to officiate for.

Quote:
One thing to think about, though - my experience is, giving T's is probably more indicative of a personality trait that a ref'ing preference. You may to work with both "extremes" individually to change behavior.
You're correct. You can't change personality but you can change behavior.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2002, 11:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 11
At the end of my first year of reffing varsity high school ball, I was being evaluated by one of the state association observers.

I correctly called an offensive foul and the player's coach went off--standing up and kicking his chair. I marched right by him without even glancing and checked in the foul as my veteran partner ran over in front of the coach, protecting me as I moved to the other side of the floor- without calling a T.

During halftime, the observer, who was an experienced HS and college official, said the offensive call was the right call but "but you missed one thing," he said, as he gave the T sign. "Never let a coach grandstand you," he said.

I never forgotten those words and use that as my guideline.

There's still a lot of communicating you can do with a coach to avoid the T as the other posts indicate.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 28, 2002, 03:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
May I just add a couple things that are particularly for women? The basic fact is that most male coaches, most not all, and some female coaches have far less respect for a female ref than for a male ref. The result is that the woman official has to do a lot more management than a male official. I was giving way too few T's the first year, and was told at a camp by a woman evaluator, "You should plan to give more T's than a man, until you get your legs under you." That helped and the next year and a half, I probably gave way too many, but by the end of my third season, I was doing it just about right. Here are five observations that I have made that have helped me. I guess these are all good hints for all officials, but they go double for women.

a) each coach is a different person. Don't treat them all the same. Establish in your mind three to five categories of how to handle coaches, and try to figure out what's going to work with which ones.

b) an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If a few words of discussion will help, do it. If a warning is needed, do it. If you need a different look on your face, do it.

c) carefully practice phrases and sentences that will de-fuse a situation. Think how they would make you feel if you were a frustrated coach.

d) don't be afraid to admit you're wrong. Don't do it very often, but it can be a great preventative.

e) maintain a sense of perspective and balance. Give the T when the coach gets personal, but don't take it personally. Once you lose your balance (ie temper), you/ve lost your only advantage.

Here's the best hint: You'll know you gave a T appropriately, if the coach settles down from then on and the kids start playing better. This happens very often, and you should go back after the game, and figure out when you gave the T and why, and what type of coach that was, so that next time, you can do the same again.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 28, 2002, 09:14am
9 times
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: St. George, UT
Posts: 777
Quote:
Originally posted by pank
"Never let a coach grandstand you," he said.

I never forgotten those words and use that as my guideline.

This is exactly what I meant by not letting the coach embarrass you. Grandstanding may be a better word.
__________________
Get it right!

1999 (2x), 2006, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2016, 2019
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 28, 2002, 10:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 337
I may be opening a huge can of verbal "whoop ***", but I hope none of you ever tell a coach literally to "shut up". I realize coaches (including me) deserve it, but like police officers, you are held to a higher standard. People aren't surprised when coaches "go off", but there are consequences to our actions.

Telling a coach to shut up, in my mind, is much more personal than giving the coach a T. If you're that fed up with the coach, ring him up.

Telling a coach to shut up is confrontational. Giving a T is doing your job.

I was told, loudly, one time, by a ref, "Why don't you shut up?" I did the only thing a self-respecting, egotistical person would do. I replied, "Why don't you?" I then gathered my stuff and left the bench - under orders from the referee, of course. Hey, I'm not saying I didn't deserve it. I'm just saying, the referee shouldn't lower him(her)self to that level. Tough, I know. Just ask a police officer.
__________________
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.

- Catherine Aird
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 28, 2002, 10:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 662
Send a message via AIM to johnSandlin Send a message via Yahoo to johnSandlin
I agree with everyone's assessment of giving out "T's." I look at this way:
1. If you can avoid giving one out, then do so.
2. If you going to ring somebody, then do it. Do not keep
giving them a chance to hang you out to try.
3. And probably, the most important thing, if you going to
ring somebody, then do it in a professional manner.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1