Over and Back by stepping out of "bounds"

Originally Posted by kbilla

Good point Bob, I didn't read the details in the post, just sort of skipped to the question....can't apply the OOB rules to the BC in this case, the BC rule only says that a player can't be the first to touch the ball in the BC if it was caused to go to the BC by his/her teammate...doesn't say anything about a dribble.....in this case the ball never went into the BC, therefore how can you have a violation?

Wait a minute, let me go back and read it again:

she realizes that her momentum is going to carry her across the halfcourt line thus commiting a backcourt violation so before she leaves her front court she pushes the ball with one hand, basically still dribbling, so that the ball stays in front court yet she takes 2 steps in the back court and then catches up to the ball in front court and continues to dribble, ref calls over and back.

So if the dribbler (in the frontcourt) steps on the division line... that's not a BC violation??

If the dribbler steps on the sideline... that's not an OOB violation??

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Wait a minute, let me go back and read it again:

she realizes that her momentum is going to carry her across the halfcourt line thus commiting a backcourt violation so before she leaves her front court she pushes the ball with one hand, basically still dribbling, so that the ball stays in front court yet she takes 2 steps in the back court and then catches up to the ball in front court and continues to dribble, ref calls over and back.

So if the dribbler (in the frontcourt) steps on the division line... that's not a BC violation??

If the dribbler steps on the sideline... that's not an OOB violation??

Sideline YES. Division line, how can you have a BC violation if the ball never went to the BC? I don't have my rulebook with me, but does the section covering BC even reference "dribbler"? I suspect it doesn't....

Originally Posted by kbilla

Sideline YES. Division line, how can you have a BC violation if the ball never went to the BC?



I don't have my rulebook with me, but does the section covering BC even reference "dribbler"? I suspect it doesn't....

Have I really been officiating this play incorrectly all this time? Or do you have a misunderstanding of 4-4-1... that is the question.

BTW, how I interpreted the OP there was no interupted dribble, everything was done purposely

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

Have I really been officiating this play incorrectly all this time? Or do you have a misunderstanding of 4-4-1... that is the question.

BTW, how I interpreted the OP there was no interupted dribble, everything was done purposely

I am trying to envision the caseplay that covers this play on the sideline and makes it a violation..I actually don't believe that I have ever seen the play described in the OP in 14 years....when would A1 have time to leave the ball, go BC, and then return and continue the dribble without B1,2,3,4,5 going the other way with it?

[kbilla]

The more I think about this, this does have to be a violation....otherwise you could have the same play I described in a prior post where a dribbler runs along the division line, stepping on the line after pushing the ball to the floor each time, then re-establishing in the FC before contacting the ball again...absent an interuppted dribble which I agree there does not appear to be in the OP, this is a violation...sorry Ch1town, this is what I get for trying to post while talking to the phone company!

It's all good, just want to make sure that we are all making the correct call in those situations. Because whenever the dribbler is in the frontcourt & they b a r e l y touch the division line, well, I gotta violation.

[PSidbury]

Originally Posted by kbilla

...how can you have a BC violation if the ball never went to the BC?...

I am confused. Which, doesn't take much considering this is my first season...

The ball does not have to contact the backcourt for a violation to occur, however if any part of the player while in possession of the ball contacts the backcourt... then yes... it is a backcourt violation.

Right...?

Is that the thread's argument ?

Thanks,
Paul

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by PSidbury

I am confused. Which, doesn't take much considering this is my first season...

The ball does not have to contact the backcourt for a violation to occur, however if any part of the player while in possession of the ball contacts the backcourt... then yes... it is a backcourt violation.

Right...?

Is that the thread's argument ?

Thanks,
Paul

Ignore my comments made as I argued with AT&T for 45 mins, look at the subsequent posts...

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Sideline YES. Division line, how can you have a BC violation if the ball never went to the BC? I don't have my rulebook with me, but does the section covering BC even reference "dribbler"? I suspect it doesn't....

The ball doesn't have to go into the BC to have a BC violation. If the ball has FC status and the player in player control of the ball steps into the BC, it's a violation.

Originally Posted by kbilla

"An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble." 4.15.5

In the OP I would argue that it didn't "get away" from the dribbler, she intentionally left it there, therefore her dribble continues...

It makes no difference whether an interrupted dribble is intentional or accidental. It's simply a loss of player control.

[deecee]

the case play you are asking for is the one where the dribbler makes a move around a defender and dribbles the ball around ol cement feet while the ball handler goes around the other side which is out of bounds and picks up his dribbler while ol cement feet is still wondering what the heck just happened. this is an oob violation. same for this backcourt play -- its a violation.

[Johnny Ringo]

Most of the replies keep talking about an interrupted dribble ... when I first read the OP I first though of this being a pass and ended up being a pass to herself ... right?

That would make it a violation, forget the over and back.

The way the OP read was it was an intentional act ... an interrupted dribble is not done on purpose.

[BillyMac]

2007 IAABO Refresher Exam, Question 57: While dribbling in the frontcourt, near the division line, A1 steps on the division line. Official rules this a backcourt violation even though he/she is not touching the ball. Is the official correct? Yes (Rule9-9-1)

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2007 IAABO Refresher Exam, Question 57: While dribbling in the frontcourt, near the division line, A1 steps on the division line. Official rules this a backcourt violation even though he/she is not touching the ball. Is the official correct? Yes (Rule9-9-1)

Could the time lapsed between dribbles have anything to do with this OP scenario?

This is a really good debate we have going...

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Most of the replies keep talking about an interrupted dribble ... when I first read the OP I first though of this being a pass and ended up being a pass to herself ... right?

That would make it a violation, forget the over and back.

The way the OP read was it was an intentional act ... an interrupted dribble is not done on purpose.

Please show me in the rule book where it says an interrupted dribble in an unintentional act.

BTW, for the newbies, you would be wise to ignore most anything deecee writes.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

the case play you are asking for is the one where the dribbler makes a move around a defender and dribbles the ball around ol cement feet while the ball handler goes around the other side which is out of bounds and picks up his dribbler while ol cement feet is still wondering what the heck just happened. this is an oob violation. same for this backcourt play -- its a violation.

Nope. That's a violation for leaving the floor for an unauthorized reason. It's not an OOB violation. Not even close to the same.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

BTW, for the newbies, you would be wise to ignore most anything deecee writes.