Illegal Blocks "in the back"

[Rich]

Does anyone else live in an area where coaches don't understand what constitutes an IBB?

Last night, we're coming in at halftime. Score is 41-7, visiting team. Home coach was screaming on the last touchdown that we missed an illegal block in the back around the right side. I saw the block while trailing the play (I'm the WH). While definitely not in the front, the block was on the shoulder and the player fell to the side. Clearly NOT an IBB.

As we were walking into our locker room, we had to walk past some of the home team coaches. The coach grabbed an assistant and "demonstrated" the block. He demonstrated it right where it happened, too. To the outside of the left shoulder blade. Wasn't much I could say to him at this point, so we kept on walking.

Watching some game tape yesterday from last week, I saw my BJ flag such a block on a punt return. The hit was clearly to the side of the player and the player did not fall forward after the block. I rewound this three or four times and asked the three crew members present -- is this a foul? All were unanimous -- definitely not an IBB. Unfortunately, the BJ wasn't present, but I plan on showing this to the whole crew again at the end of the season when we watch our season of game tapes.

The interesting thing about this film clip was that coaches in the press box were saying how (1) it was a stupid penalty and (2) it was a good call. It wasn't either.

I just think there needs to be some consistency and education out there about this, and I'm not sure how to go about it. I hear it every week from coaches who think a block in the side is, somehow, illegal.

Guess I just wanted to vent, somewhere.

[Forksref]

Not understanding the components of an IBB is not a regionalism.

I like the way you explain it by the way the blockee falls to the side. Also, I like to say that the back is the back, it is NOT the shoulder or arm and the IBB must COME from the back, not the side.

When you are down in a 41-7 game, everything looks bad!

[Texas Aggie]

Does anyone else live in an area where coaches don't understand what constitutes an IBB?

You're joking, right? Everyone lives in such an area.

Seriously, its funny, though. Last year, I heard about every phantom BIB that didn't happen. This year, I don't think I've heard much about them -- fewer than 5 times the whole season (~30 games).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

You're joking, right? Everyone lives in such an area.

Seriously, its funny, though. Last year, I heard about every phantom BIB that didn't happen. This year, I don't think I've heard much about them -- fewer than 5 times the whole season (~30 games).

When I'm trailing a play, I see such a block and know, KNOW that some coach is going to start screaming for an IBB. I'm rarely "disappointed."

I didn't think it was just me, but it's always entertaining to hear from others.

[RoyGardner]

Try what out training instructor does when he is teaching BIB to new recruits. He draws a simple rectangle and asks them to describe the 4 sides of the rectangle. We usually get answers like front, back, left, and right. Then he goes on to note that a block to only one of those is a BIB.

[Texas Aggie]

That's a good idea, Roy, but its hard to visualize the front and back of a two dimensional object. Maybe a piece of paper or cardboard with F, B, R, and L on it.

[Ref inSoCA]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Does anyone else live in an area where coaches don't understand what constitutes an IBB?

Last night, we're coming in at halftime. Score is 41-7, visiting team. Home coach was screaming on the last touchdown that we missed an illegal block in the back around the right side. I saw the block while trailing the play (I'm the WH). While definitely not in the front, the block was on the shoulder and the player fell to the side. Clearly NOT an IBB.

As we were walking into our locker room, we had to walk past some of the home team coaches. The coach grabbed an assistant and "demonstrated" the block. He demonstrated it right where it happened, too. To the outside of the left shoulder blade. Wasn't much I could say to him at this point, so we kept on walking.

Watching some game tape yesterday from last week, I saw my BJ flag such a block on a punt return. The hit was clearly to the side of the player and the player did not fall forward after the block. I rewound this three or four times and asked the three crew members present -- is this a foul? All were unanimous -- definitely not an IBB. Unfortunately, the BJ wasn't present, but I plan on showing this to the whole crew again at the end of the season when we watch our season of game tapes.

The interesting thing about this film clip was that coaches in the press box were saying how (1) it was a stupid penalty and (2) it was a good call. It wasn't either.

I just think there needs to be some consistency and education out there about this, and I'm not sure how to go about it. I hear it every week from coaches who think a block in the side is, somehow, illegal.

Guess I just wanted to vent, somewhere.

Yup.

A few days ago, I posted here or somewhere else about a coach who screamed for a BIB on a punt retrurn. I finally asked him where the blockee was hit. He said "right on the number on his sleeve" and pointed to the blockee's side. I just said "You're right" and walked away.

Later, on a sweep left, he couldn't unerstand why holding wasn't called on the TE who was on the right side of the formation.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

When I'm trailing a play, I see such a block and know, KNOW that some coach is going to start screaming for an IBB. I'm rarely "disappointed."

I didn't think it was just me, but it's always entertaining to hear from others.

...and i like how coaches and players call all IBB's "clips", even though they are 2 different fouls. i'm guilty of it too (pretty much because it's easier to yell "clip" than "illegal block in the back"). haha

[rockyroad]

So following the logic here...if the "blockee" does not fall to or get driven to the side, but instead the block spins them around (example, defender hit on right and is spun to left by the contact) then it is an IBB? I ask because that happened in our game Friday on a punt return - we (of course)thought it was clearly an IBB, but the LJ said the contact was on the side...however, our defender was spun completely around because the contact came on the back of the shoulder...so I'm trying to make sure I understand the IBB thing a little better for the future...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So following the logic here...if the "blockee" does not fall to or get driven to the side, but instead the block spins them around (example, defender hit on right and is spun to left by the contact) then it is an IBB? I ask because that happened in our game Friday on a punt return - we (of course)thought it was clearly an IBB, but the LJ said the contact was on the side...however, our defender was spun completely around because the contact came on the back of the shoulder...so I'm trying to make sure I understand the IBB thing a little better for the future...

Back of the shoulder is NOT a block in the back. A rule of thumb is that the person receiving the block in the back must fall forward, otherwise, it's not a penalty. A "blockee" getting driven to the side is probably blocked in the side.

A block in the back must be inside the shoulders, below the helmet, and above the waist.

See 2-5-2 in the NFHS rules.

It's likely that a lot of legal blocks will blindside the player receiving the block. Those are the ones we always hear about from the coaches. Unless it's between the shoulder blades, though, it's legal.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Back of the shoulder is NOT a block in the back. A rule of thumb is that the person receiving the block in the back must fall forward, otherwise, it's not a penalty. A "blockee" getting driven to the side is probably blocked in the side.

A block in the back must be inside the shoulders, below the helmet, and above the waist.

See 2-5-2 in the NFHS rules.

It's likely that a lot of legal blocks will blindside the player receiving the block. Those are the ones we always hear about from the coaches. Unless it's between the shoulder blades, though, it's legal.

Thanks Rich...makes sense. Is it safe to say that IBB's are pretty inconsistently called that way??

[Jim D]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Back of the shoulder is NOT a block in the back. A rule of thumb is that the person receiving the block in the back must fall forward, otherwise, it's not a penalty. A "blockee" getting driven to the side is probably blocked in the side.

A block in the back must be inside the shoulders, below the helmet, and above the waist.

See 2-5-2 in the NFHS rules.

It's likely that a lot of legal blocks will blindside the player receiving the block. Those are the ones we always hear about from the coaches. Unless it's between the shoulder blades, though, it's legal.

I won't even go that far. If you hit a player on the shoulder he can, because of the angle of the block or due to his momentum, turn so the rest of the block is in the back. This would be a legal block.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jim D

I won't even go that far. If you hit a player on the shoulder he can, because of the angle of the block or due to his momentum, turn so the rest of the block is in the back. This would be a legal block.

Good point. Same thing happens more frequently with blocks that appear to be IBBW. Contact starts high, then slides down. Legal.

As far as the other question goes, I'd say that quite a few of the IBBs I see flagged here are NOT IBB.

[mcrowder]

The ones that kill me are on longer breakaways where a defender turns away from an approaching block and faceplants. It's not a BIB if he turns his back into the block.

I think I've explained to enough of the local coaches the logic of watching how their kid goes down and that if he flies to the side, even if he didn't see it coming, it's NOT in the back.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: I'd venture to guess that the reason that your BJ and a lot of officials call an IBB when the contact is clearly from the side is because they don't see the whole play. In order to call this correctly, you need to see the approach of the blocker, the block itself, and the reaction of the player blocked. Another reason for making errors on this play is positioning--either being too close to the action or at a bad angle to see the whole play properly.