Partners "stepping in" to your discussion...

Ever have it happen? Working with a guy, and say you call a runner's interference on the bases, and as the Head Coach of the offending team comes out to find out what it is all about, your partner cuts him off and explains your call for you?

What would you do/say afterwards if the person is senior to you?

What about your partner "stepping in" during a perfectly good argument with a coach who you know very well, and you know is doing a little show to fire up the troops and let off a little steam, and your partner says "Come on guys, let's go"?

I gotta admit, I have seen an alarming number of instances where the first is happening, or even worse, where umpires are "ganging up" on Head Coaches. You see it a few different times in one of the NCAA presentations this year.

Personally, I stay out of people's discussion until my partner peels away after ejecting somebody. There is no point before then where I will interject into the discussion. It is not my discussion. I expect that same protocol from my partners but haven't felt the need to cover it in a pre-game for a long time.

It just got added to the pre-game list.

Same with the partner trying to cut in mid-way through an argument. While I know they have good intentions, it actually makes things worse for them, because not only is the coach pissed at them, but so am I!

Very interested in hearing your take on it. Maybe we can get some good discussion on this before it becomes a pee-off between a few people eh?

[DG]

I don't explain my partner's calls, and I don't butt in unless I need to.

[kylejt]

The only time I've done this was when I was working with a rookie, junior umpire. The manager wanted time to argue a bang-bang play at second. I told him unless he had a dropped ball, pulled foot, or missed tag, don't even bother.

Other than a guy trying to intimidate a rookie, I'll stay waaay out of it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rei

Ever have it happen? Working with a guy, and say you call a runner's interference on the bases, and as the Head Coach of the offending team comes out to find out what it is all about, your partner cuts him off and explains your call for you?

What would you do/say afterwards if the person is senior to you?

What about your partner "stepping in" during a perfectly good argument with a coach who you know very well, and you know is doing a little show to fire up the troops and let off a little steam, and your partner says "Come on guys, let's go"?

I gotta admit, I have seen an alarming number of instances where the first is happening, or even worse, where umpires are "ganging up" on Head Coaches. You see it a few different times in one of the NCAA presentations this year.

Personally, I stay out of people's discussion until my partner peels away after ejecting somebody. There is no point before then where I will interject into the discussion. It is not my discussion. I expect that same protocol from my partners but haven't felt the need to cover it in a pre-game for a long time.

It just got added to the pre-game list.

Same with the partner trying to cut in mid-way through an argument. While I know they have good intentions, it actually makes things worse for them, because not only is the coach pissed at them, but so am I!

Very interested in hearing your take on it. Maybe we can get some good discussion on this before it becomes a pee-off between a few people eh?

I had never been so mad on a field than the day my partner got between me and a coach before I had tossed him. It's my business as long as the coach is still in the game.

I might get closer to the argument, but that's only so I don't have as far to go after the ejection. The only time I get involved if there's a 2-on-1 -- then I'm picking the other person off so my partner has the head coach 1-on-1.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Just what Rich said.

I don't like butt-inskies either. It's my argument, and the day I can't handle a single manager without assistance is the day I would quit.

I know most people don't like it, but what would you do about it if your partner was senior to you in your organization? That is the $16 question.

Let's pile it on. What if this partner is doing the level of ball you aspire to, and knows almost everybody that can help you get there?

What are you going to say when they cut in on your discussion?

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's pile it on. What if this partner is doing the level of ball you aspire to, and knows almost everybody that can help you get there?

What are you going to say when they cut in on your discussion?

After the game:

"Bob, I know you were trying to help me out out there, and I appreciate that. I rely on umpires like you to mentor me, but I think you need to see how I manage situations on my own so you can better judge how much advice and instruction I still need. Does that make sense?"

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

I know most people don't like it, but what would you do about it if your partner was senior to you in your organization? That is the $16 question.

I don't care if God himself comes down and gets in the middle of my argument, I will just tell Him to get back to Heaven where he belongs, because this is my business here.

The same thing goes for the guy who works the upper level ball to which I aspire. I've worked with these guys before, and they have never tried to do this, ever. It has always been a "sink or swim" mentality on these kind of situations. But if one of them had tried to step on my toes, they would have heard about it from me after the game. To do any less would be like kissing up to them, which I've never been about.

[JRutledge]

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Discuss this before the game. Then you know what the expectations are during a blow up. I have no problem with my partner being in the area if a discussion is going on too long or they are there to get other participants out of the discussion. I do not think there is a one-size fits all point of view. But I would discuss this because you will have a debate on some level.

Peace

Let's say it was covered before that game!

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

I work with a lot of great guys! But here and there, I work with somebody who has had their head up their fanny for so long that they forgot that their poop stinks too!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's say it was covered before that game!

I work with a lot of great guys! But here and there, I work with somebody who has had their head up their fanny for so long that they forgot that their poop stinks too!

You cover it so you know where your partner stands. You do not have to go over every possible situation. You just have to go over attitudes about how you want to handle basic discussions. There are always exceptions, but if you want to keep yourself out of being completely surprised, cover "How we want to handle arguments during this game." Then when the $h!t hits the fan, you can do what is discussed or choose to ignore it.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's say it was covered before that game!

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

I work with a lot of great guys! But here and there, I work with somebody who has had their head up their fanny for so long that they forgot that their poop stinks too!

I will likely not be in this situation. We work with regular partners (I have 25 HS and college dates with one guy and 10 dates with another guy -- both close friends) and I don't aspire to be more than a better official at my current level.

But I do know where you're coming from, as I've moved about 5 times before settling in here in my current, snow-covered location. And I've had partners act like I've never umpired before even though I could tell in minutes that I'd be carrying them in rough moments even though they were the ones politically connected.

All you can do is let your umpiring speak for itself and not make life difficult for yourself while you're climbing the ladder. If a partner got in the middle during an argument at a level I didn't work often or was working towards, I'd likely let it go and figure out why he did it after the game.

I'll be honest, I know I did it myself once or twice last season -- I jumped in when an inexperienced partner was clearly overmatched. But I'm the assignor/UIC of the league, so I wasn't (at the time) interested in watching my partner suffer -- I needed the umpire to stay in the league and fill slots and learn without getting thrown to the wolves. I don't believe you necessarily learn how to swim best by getting thrown into a tank full of piranhas, either.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by rei

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

Then let me rephrase it. I've never needed anyone to step in for me when dealing with coaches during arguments, so that situation has never reared its ugly head. After ejections or when ganged up on, yes, I certainly welcome help in getting rid of the offending or extra participant(s). That is the partner's job.

Like I said, nobody has ever tried to step in between a coach and me during a one-on-one confrontation. The people I have worked with know better than to do that. My partners have fortunately been one of 3 things: 1) Too young and/or inexperienced to be that bold, (2) equals who would not want it done to them, so they know better or (3) are my senior, and as old school umpires, would just let me sink or swim on my own anyway.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by rei

Let's say it was covered before that game!

Sorry SanDiegoSteve, I just cannot buy into such a hard core stance on this. There are times when you can screw your future up by not dealing with a situation with a partner well.

rei:

All of could say "Never happened, won't happen" but most of us assumed you wanted a "what if" answer and cooperated.

As you may have observed, Stevie either doesn't understand the purpose of a hypothetical question or is choosing not to answer it.