2 strange situations in the same game

[JS 20]

Need some help on these. Both of these managed to happen in the same game. The game also included over 40 fouls (none were ticky tack) and I called 9 travels. You would think girls in the 8th grade would know they can't just run in place with the ball but oh well..

1) This happened right in front of my partner: Loose ball, A1 recovers laying on her back w/ her head about 6 inches off the floor but her pony tail is touching the end line. Is this OOB violation? Her hair is the only thing touching the line.

2) A1 bringing the ball up in the back court, ball is tipped and is loose. A2 recovers sitting on the division line. Her butt is on the line, one knee in the back court, both feet in the front court. She picks the ball up off the floor in the back court and passes to A3 who's in the back court. Any kind of violation? It looked weird but I held the whistle b/c I didn't really know and it happened pretty quick.

[stosh]

what a shock; 40 fouls in an 8th grade girls game!
in 1) OOB
in 2) nothing; both feet and the ball never reached frontcourt

[Bad Zebra]

1) Hair is a body part. Thus, she has out of bounds status when she recovered the ball. Violation.

2) If I am interpreting your post accuarately, A1 had back court status when it was tipped. A2 recovers and does not meet criteria for frontcourt status (both feet and ball in front court), thus no violation, legal pass to A3.


"A2 recovers sitting on the division line. Her butt is on the line, one knee in the back court, both feet in the front court."

As an aside, I'm having a hard time picturing exactly what this looks like.

[JS 20]

8th grade girls are funny b/c they think no one will see them basically tackle a girl during a rebound. About 4 minutes after that, she thought it would be a good idea to kick a girl in the stomach so she got the boot (ha!).

[JS 20]

Thanks for all the info on this. I appreciate it!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

1) does not meet criteria for frontcourt status (both feet and ball in front court),

Three posts in a row referring to the "three points" when they don't apply to this play.

The "three points" only applies when dribbling the ball from BC to FC. Since there was no dribble in this play, A1 would have been in the FC if she was touching (or last touched) the FC and was not touching the BC.

the answers are right; the reasoning is wrong.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JS 20

You would think girls in the 8th grade would know they can't just run in place with the ball

Why in the world would you think that? Was this the first 8th grade girls game you ever worked?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JS 20

Need some help on these. Both of these managed to happen in the same game. The game also included over 40 fouls (none were ticky tack) and I called 9 travels. You would think girls in the 8th grade would know they can't just run in place with the ball but oh well..

You count the number of travels you call? To quote David Letterman: "This is only an exhibition. It is not a competition. Please, no wagering.

[JS 20]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You count the number of travels you call? To quote David Letterman: "This is only an exhibition. It is not a competition. Please, no wagering.

Well I called 3 in the first quarter and my partner called 2. I became curious and decided to keep track. I wasn't trying to look for them and pad my stats

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JS 20

Need some help on these. Both of these managed to happen in the same game. The game also included over 40 fouls (none were ticky tack) and I called 9 travels. You would think girls in the 8th grade would know they can't just run in place with the ball but oh well..

1) This happened right in front of my partner: Loose ball, A1 recovers laying on her back w/ her head about 6 inches off the floor but her pony tail is touching the end line. Is this OOB violation? Her hair is the only thing touching the line.

2) A1 bringing the ball up in the back court, ball is tipped and is loose. A2 recovers sitting on the division line. Her butt is on the line, one knee in the back court, both feet in the front court. She picks the ball up off the floor in the back court and passes to A3 who's in the back court. Any kind of violation? It looked weird but I held the whistle b/c I didn't really know and it happened pretty quick.

1. Are you serious? This actually happened!!! We made fun of the NFHS when they issued a ruling on this exact play a few years ago. Here it is:
2005-06 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations

SITUATION 9: A1 recovers a loose ball on the playing court near the sideline, with his/her body entirely in bounds. However, A1's head is hovering out of bounds and his/her hair (which is in a long ponytail) is touching the floor, out of bounds. RULING: A1 is called for the out-of-bounds violation. (7-1-1; 7-1-2; 9-3-1)


2. Since the player is touching the backcourt that player has backcourt status. Therefore, the ball still does as well and no violation has occurred.

[ditttoo]

Just want to be clear, here. "All three" (ball, left foot, right foot) do NOT have to be in front court to establish front court. "All three" ONLY applies when the ball is being dribbled. Otherwise, all that is required to establish front court is the pivot foot. According to the post, both feet were established in the front court - so I have a back court violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ditttoo

Just want to be clear, here. "All three" (ball, left foot, right foot) do NOT have to be in front court to establish front court. "All three" ONLY applies when the ball is being dribbled. Otherwise, all that is required to establish front court is the pivot foot. According to the post, both feet were established in the front court - so I have a back court violation.

Then in that case, just to be clear, you should revisit the rules book.
You are mistaken.
The position of the feet does not matter. What matters is that this player does have some part of the body touching the backcourt, so the player has backcourt status.

4-35-2 . . . When a player is touching the backcourt, out of bounds or the three-point line, the player is located in backcourt, out of bounds,or inside the three-point line, respectively.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by ditttoo

Just want to be clear, here. "All three" (ball, left foot, right foot) do NOT have to be in front court to establish front court. "All three" ONLY applies when the ball is being dribbled. Otherwise, all that is required to establish front court is the pivot foot. According to the post, both feet were established in the front court - so I have a back court violation.

Other body parts were touching the backcourt in the OP.

[ditttoo]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Then in that case, just to be clear, you should revisit the rules book.
You are mistaken.
The position of the feet does not matter. What matters is that this player does have some part of the body touching the backcourt, so the player has backcourt status.

4-35-2 . . . When a player is touching the backcourt, out of bounds or the three-point line, the player is located in backcourt, out of bounds,or inside the three-point line, respectively.

So then, if the player were to pick up one foot and leave the pivot foot in the front court, then touch the raised foot into the back court - you're not going to call back court?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ditttoo

So then, if the player were to pick up one foot and leave the pivot foot in the front court, then touch the raised foot into the back court - you're not going to call back court?

Not while the player's backside is firmly planted on the floor in the backcourt.

What does the action which you describe have to do with the play under discussion?