T or not??

[chartrusepengui]

When I see a quick T after a missed to controversial call, it tells me that the official is defensive and/or doesn't react well in stressful situations.

Many times one coach or the other think a call has been missed and becomes upset. The point is they don't have the right to be "busting you" on the way to report. I think you see most T's after some kind of call that appears to be controversial to someone - so do you mean we should only call a T for administrative reasons - like wrong number in the book? Otherwise is might appear that we are defensive and don't react well in the stressfull enviroment of a BB game?

IMO you are a brick short of a load on this one.

[tomegun]

For anyone reading this post that is on the fence concerning this, don't listen to Oracle, Jeffpea or Fullor30. They are full of it. The OP said, "Coach is busting on me on the way to report."
I don't know how long the OP has been officiating, but I do know that from time to time we all forget a number. After the reporting is said and done, what the coach said was not questioning a call and it wasn't a comment made in any sporting manner. It was sarcastic only.
This is a super easy T and I will refrain from calling anyone who says what these three said a name. I'm really trying.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by chartrusepengui

Many times one coach or the other think a call has been missed and becomes upset. The point is they don't have the right to be "busting you" on the way to report. I think you see most T's after some kind of call that appears to be controversial to someone - so do you mean we should only call a T for administrative reasons - like wrong number in the book? Otherwise is might appear that we are defensive and don't react well in the stressfull enviroment of a BB game?

IMO you are a brick short of a load on this one.

Apparently, the actions on the way to report weren't T-worthy. So, that's not a point of discussion here.

If you mess up, then you should take more than if you don't mess up. There's still a line that can't be crossed. Based on my mind's-eys view of the OP, I don't think the line was crossed, and I likely wouldn't T. I would address it. Several suggestions on how have been given.

:shrug:

[tomegun]

Are you sure its blue coming in?? Surprised you can remember that

Bob, that isn't enough for a T?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

When I see a quick T after a missed to controversial call, it tells me that the official is defensive and/or doesn't react well in stressful situations. It also causes the official to lose a ton of credibility with coaches, partners, and players. And it's a lot harder to earn back what is lost.

Only in your rec leagues, Old School.

[Rich]

It's not often I agree with the "other side" but I would likely try to shut the coach down with something other than a technical. A technical here would be like throwing gas on a fire.

Real life example from the other night:

Partner called a foul the other night in the middle of traffic. I had the shooter but not the fouler (we were in the bonus). Partner reported the wrong number.

So, being it was a girls game, I stepped up and said softly to one of the likely candidates, "You know who that was on?" "Me, she said." Girls are usually honest in this position (guys, I wouldn't try this) and the coach didn't know I had asked (he probably did later, and I really don't care). I told my partner and he reported it. It was foul #4 on the player, and the coach started with my partner. Nothing over the top, but an "are you sure. I think you got the wrong player." Normally, it would've gone on a bit too long, but....

It looked bad, we didn't do our jobs, and that, my friends, is where the leash gets loosened at bit, for a very short time. Whacking him right there, right away, is almost the equivalent of baiting him for the technical.

Coaches have a vested interest in the game and they should expect certain things to go right, like us actually reporting the right person to the table. Reporting the wrong person, especially if that player is one of the more talented or is in foul trouble is not good. And that person ALWAYS is the wrong person, for whatever reason -- we never get the sub who just came in, will play 5 minutes, and has 5 fouls to burn.

I was working football three years ago and one of my crew members had an inadvertent whistle that cost the team 15 yards. I had to go to the head coach and explain his choices and he started right away. I stopped him and told him I'd let him vent for 30 seconds after he told me his choice, but that I wouldn't tolerate anything after that. If he didn't turn the page (as we as officials needed to), he was going to get flagged. Then I shut up and let him vent for 30 seconds. He knew better than to be profane and personal and just vented. After thirty seconds, I reminded him that it's over and now we're going to continue the game. And we all did. But I made sure I looked him in the eye and at least pretended to listen to every word he said.

I would recommend walking over to the coach, telling him that "I screwed up," but it won't help anyone if he tries to embarrass me or show me up and that if he wants to vent, I'll give him a few seconds as long as he doesn't show me up and that he turns the page.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Apparently, the actions on the way to report weren't T-worthy. So, that's not a point of discussion here.

If you mess up, then you should take more than if you don't mess up. There's still a line that can't be crossed. Based on my mind's-eys view of the OP, I don't think the line was crossed, and I likely wouldn't T. I would address it. Several suggestions on how have been given.

:shrug:

I'm glad to see I'm not alone among "non-Old School" types.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Are you sure its blue coming in?? Surprised you can remember that

Bob, that isn't enough for a T?

I can let one remark like that go without even looking in his direction considering the circumstances. The crew DID screw up, after all.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Apparently, the actions on the way to report weren't T-worthy. So, that's not a point of discussion here.

If you mess up, then you should take more than if you don't mess up. There's still a line that can't be crossed. Based on my mind's-eys view of the OP, I don't think the line was crossed, and I likely wouldn't T. I would address it. Several suggestions on how have been given.

:shrug:

I agree with this line of thinking. If I screw up, I am more inclined to take a little more, but you are absolutely correct, there's still a line that can't be crossed. If the OP happened to me, I probably would've try to inject some of my stale humor, or just tell the coach, you're right I screwed the pooch on this one and move on. I think you can maintain your credibility by admitting you may have been wrong. Now if you're constantly telling the coach you screwed up then you have bigger problems.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

This whole post is dead on.

Agreed...........good way to handle it.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's not often I agree with the "other side" but I would likely try to shut the coach down with something other than a technical. A technical here would be like throwing gas on a fire.

Real life example from the other night:

Partner called a foul the other night in the middle of traffic. I had the shooter but not the fouler (we were in the bonus). Partner reported the wrong number.

So, being it was a girls game, I stepped up and said softly to one of the likely candidates, "You know who that was on?" "Me, she said." Girls are usually honest in this position (guys, I wouldn't try this) and the coach didn't know I had asked (he probably did later, and I really don't care). I told my partner and he reported it. It was foul #4 on the player, and the coach started with my partner. Nothing over the top, but an "are you sure. I think you got the wrong player." Normally, it would've gone on a bit too long, but....

It looked bad, we didn't do our jobs, and that, my friends, is where the leash gets loosened at bit, for a very short time. Whacking him right there, right away, is almost the equivalent of baiting him for the technical..

But what the coach said in your sitch is different from the OP. The OP was being loud, obnoxious, and then hit the ABS limit (imo) with a loud sarcastic show-me-up smart-aleck remark that had nothing to do with the missed number. I agree that if you can shut the guy down without a T, it should be done that way, and it may be that some folks could pull that off. I couldn't have, and I don't think anyone should feel that a T would be out of place in the OP.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

But what the coach said in your sitch is different from the OP. The OP was being loud, obnoxious, and then hit the ABS limit (imo) with a loud sarcastic show-me-up smart-aleck remark that had nothing to do with the missed number. I agree that if you can shut the guy down without a T, it should be done that way, and it may be that some folks could pull that off. I couldn't have, and I don't think anyone should feel that a T would be out of place in the OP.

Now if the coach says what he says in the OP so that everyone in the gym hears him, that's an easy one, WHACK. Now if the official inbounds the ball near the team bench and the coach is standing there and makes the remark to me, without yelling or raising his voice, and I know I screwed up, I will probably let him ride that one time.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Now if the coach says what he says in the OP so that everyone in the gym hears him, that's an easy one, WHACK. Now if the official inbounds the ball near the team bench and the coach is standing there and makes the remark to me, without yelling or raising his voice, and I know I screwed up, I will probably let him ride that one time.

That's a good clarification.

[Andy]

I can see both sides of this situation.

I don't know what the extent of "busting on me on the way to report" was, but if it was enough to distract me from the job at hand - reporting the foul - it needs to be dealt with. Each of us is going to have a different level of what is distracting.

From my reading of the OP, the coaches comments were enough to distract MidMadness. Now he has to delay the game a bit to talk to his partner, and the table, to try to get the correct number. This whole time, I'm sure the coach is being an angel on the sideline and patiently waiting to resume the game.

MidMadness resolves the situation the best he can and prepares to resume the game, but coach can't resist one more shot to add to the situation he helped create in the first place! I don't have a problem with whacking him here.

I could also see not whacking him and dealing with the comment another way. Whatever path you choose, the coach has to know that the comment was inappropriate and the game is moving on.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

But what the coach said in your sitch is different from the OP. The OP was being loud, obnoxious, and then hit the ABS limit (imo) with a loud sarcastic show-me-up smart-aleck remark that had nothing to do with the missed number. I agree that if you can shut the guy down without a T, it should be done that way, and it may be that some folks could pull that off. I couldn't have, and I don't think anyone should feel that a T would be out of place in the OP.

Rainmaker, thank you for stating the obvious. It is so obvious that I don't know why this would be compared to what the OP said. I doubt this was said in a quiet enough tone that only the coach and the official heard it. If anyone, and I mean anyone, can hear it then I give a T.