T or not?? - Page 3

WhistlesAndStripes · #31 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 01:54pm

I certainly don't have a problem with someone whacking a coach in this situation, but given my understanding of it, I'm probably just continuing on with the throw-in. The only reason I would T him is if the throw-in is so far away from the bench that everyone in the gym can hear his last comment. But if, as others have said, it's somewhat close to his bench, and it's just a snide remark between him and I, then yeah, I screwed up, I'll take the remark, and move on. But if he even brings us back to this situation ONCE the rest of the game, WHACK!

Adam · #32 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 01:55pm

If I'd screwed this up, without the coach busting me on my way to report, I'd give him some leeway. Depending on how bad his comments were on my way to report, this is a possible T. He gets less rope due to his behavior.

Now, if it's a coach I've got a raport with, and he says it quietly in an obviously joking tone, I might respond with something self-deprecating. Not sure.

WhistlesAndStripes · #33 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 01:56pm

From the OP:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

II go to inbounds the ball near the teams bench that the foul was called....and I say Blue coming in....The coachs comment was ...Are you sure its blue coming in?? Surprised you can remember that???? Tor no t??? Thnaks

Sounds to me like it was very likely not a comment that was yelled across the gym to anyone. Take a little, laugh with the coach, and move on.

tomegun · #34 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

From the OP:

Sounds to me like it was very likely not a comment that was yelled across the gym to anyone. Take a little, laugh with the coach, and move on.

Where did it say the coach was laughing? It seems as though many would like to make every excuse for the coach in this situation. If you have lived a charmed life as an official, I can understand your feelings. However, if you've experienced high school and college basketball like I have more than likely this coach is getting a T. Even if one of the players heard it, this is high school basketball and the adults are supposed to set the example for sportsmanship. There is nothing sporting about this comment - the poster never said he had a history with this coach and he knew the coach was joking, he actually posted this for the opposite reason: he wanted to know should he have given the coach a T. Do we really believe in sportsmanship or does it only matter some of the time? You best believe, one player or more heard this and that is too much. Does the referee have backing by the rule book to call this T? Of course. Can the referee not call the T and possibly let unsporting behavior go? Yes. We all have to decide, but it pains me to think someone would call a T because a player is saying, "ball, ball, ball" to another player, but will let this go.

WhistlesAndStripes · #35 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun

Where did it say the coach was laughing? It seems as though many would like to make every excuse for the coach in this situation. If you have lived a charmed life as an official, I can understand your feelings. However, if you've experienced high school and college basketball like I have more than likely this coach is getting a T. Even if one of the players heard it, this is high school basketball and the adults are supposed to set the example for sportsmanship. There is nothing sporting about this comment - the poster never said he had a history with this coach and he knew the coach was joking, he actually posted this for the opposite reason: he wanted to know should he have given the coach a T. Do we really believe in sportsmanship or does it only matter some of the time? You best believe, one player or more heard this and that is too much. Does the referee have backing by the rule book to call this T? Of course. Can the referee not call the T and possibly let unsporting behavior go? Yes. We all have to decide, but it pains me to think someone would call a T because a player is saying, "ball, ball, ball" to another player, but will let this go.

It doesn't. I'm saying that I would add the laughter. If I just jacked something up, I'm not going to try and cover it by whacking the coach. I'm also not going to let a coach busting me in the chops on the wy to report cause me to forget the number. Dealing with that is a whole other concept.

Personally, if I've gotten to the table, forgot the number, and my partner(s) can't help me, I'm going to the floor captain. "Can you help me out with who that last foul was on, cause if you can't help me, I'm hanging it on you." Schtick happens, and yes, we all at times forget something. But c'mon, no need to be so uptight out there when a coach is ribbing you.

tomegun · #36 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

It doesn't. I'm saying that I would add the laughter. If I just jacked something up, I'm not going to try and cover it by whacking the coach. I'm also not going to let a coach busting me in the chops on the wy to report cause me to forget the number. Dealing with that is a whole other concept.

Personally, if I've gotten to the table, forgot the number, and my partner(s) can't help me, I'm going to the floor captain. "Can you help me out with who that last foul was on, cause if you can't help me, I'm hanging it on you." Schtick happens, and yes, we all at times forget something. But c'mon, no need to be so uptight out there when a coach is ribbing you.

I guess that is another way of saying I'm going to ignore unsporting behavior because I need to grow a crop.

I like to laugh and joke with the best of them, but I'm not going to turn an unsporting matter into a laughing matter so I can say I've only given a coach X amount of Ts. Now I see how people call so few they can keep track. You shouldn't be so uptight about calling an earned technical foul. There is a difference between someone saying something to you when you mess up and being a jerk, maybe you should learn it.

blindzebra · #37 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:31pm

Wow.

This is an easy T call.

So what some are saying is that the official calls a foul and the behavior of the coach causes the official to lose focus and forget the number.

The coach then gets a free shot because the official "screws up"?

So the official should mess up not only the number...which the coach caused...and then screw up the blatantly insulting comment by ignoring it?

Geesh, no wonder those of us that do take care of business have to.

tomegun · #38 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Wow.

This is an easy T call.

So what some are saying is that the official calls a foul and the behavior of the coach causes the official to lose focus and forget the number.

The coach then gets a free shot because the official "screws up"?

So the official should mess up not only the number...which the coach caused...and then screw up the blatantly insulting comment by ignoring it?

Geesh, no wonder those of us that do take care of business have to.

That is exactly what they are saying. You are probably like me and stick out like a sore thumb. I would T this up without giving it a second thought. My bad, the only second thought would be if the coach said something else to get a second T.

WhistlesAndStripes · #39 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun

I guess that is another way of saying I'm going to ignore unsporting behavior because I need to grow a crop.

I like to laugh and joke with the best of them, but I'm not going to turn an unsporting matter into a laughing matter so I can say I've only given a coach X amount of Ts. Now I see how people call so few they can keep track. You shouldn't be so uptight about calling an earned technical foul. There is a difference between someone saying something to you when you mess up and being a jerk, maybe you should learn it.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I've given my share of Ts and then some. My fellow officials will often call me John "T" Anderson I've been known to throw so many.

Mark Padgett · #40 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:44pm

As Dr. Naismith once said, "When in doubt, toss him out."

OK - he probably never said that, but it's good advice anyway.

JoeTheRef · #41 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun

Where did it say the coach was laughing? It seems as though many would like to make every excuse for the coach in this situation. If you have lived a charmed life as an official, I can understand your feelings. However, if you've experienced high school and college basketball like I have more than likely this coach is getting a T. Even if one of the players heard it, this is high school basketball and the adults are supposed to set the example for sportsmanship. There is nothing sporting about this comment - the poster never said he had a history with this coach and he knew the coach was joking, he actually posted this for the opposite reason: he wanted to know should he have given the coach a T. Do we really believe in sportsmanship or does it only matter some of the time? You best believe, one player or more heard this and that is too much. Does the referee have backing by the rule book to call this T? Of course. Can the referee not call the T and possibly let unsporting behavior go? Yes. We all have to decide, but it pains me to think someone would call a T because a player is saying, "ball, ball, ball" to another player, but will let this go.

Is it what he said that you're giving him a T on, regardless of the situation that happened before, or the tone he said it? It appears that you are not and will not take any of those factors into consideration, and you're whacking him on his words.

canuckref · #42 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 02:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

I had a foul the other day....Coach is busting on me on the way to report..I lose track of who the foul is on.....I ask my partner for help...He can't help me ...I go to the table and no one there is for sure..So I tell them to mark it down as a team foul....I go to inbounds the ball near the teams bench that the foul was called....and I say Blue coming in....The coachs comment was ...Are you sure its blue coming in?? Surprised you can remember that???? Tor no t??? Thnaks

That's a technical foul...not to sure what other rules say but Fiba has this:

38.3.2 A technical foul by a coach, assistant coach, substitute or team follower is a foul for disrespectfully communicating with or touching the officials, the commissioner, the table officials or the opponents, or an infraction of a procedural or an administrative nature.

It sure sounds to me like he was being disrespectful, denigrating your abilities as an official, interfering with your attempt to report by badgering you about the call as you report, being sarcastic and insulting following the inbound call...sounds to me like he's begging for it.

JoeTheRef · #43 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 03:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by canuckref

That's a technical foul...not to sure what other rules say but Fiba has this:

38.3.2 A technical foul by a coach, assistant coach, substitute or team follower is a foul for disrespectfully communicating with or touching the officials, the commissioner, the table officials or the opponents, or an infraction of a procedural or an administrative nature.

It sure sounds to me like he was being disrespectful, denigrating your abilities as an official, interfering with your attempt to report by badgering you about the call as you report, being sarcastic and insulting following the inbound call...sounds to me like he's begging for it.

So it is disrespectful for the coach to ask a legitimate question and comment without raising his/hers voice, after witnessing you forgetting what just took place less then 60 seconds prior?

Please don't get me wrong, like I and many have said, if we screwed up we may give a little in this situation, but we all have lines that we have to draw and the coach can't cross that line ever, regardless of what takes place in a game. IMO in the OP the coach didn't cross MY line, especially if I just screwed up and he was commenting on it. And iF he made that comment like I pictured in the OP (throw-in was in front of his bench), then he's probably going to get a pass this time.

rockyroad · #44 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

So it is disrespectful for the coach to ask a legitimate question and comment without raising his/hers voice, after witnessing you forgetting what just took place less then 60 seconds prior?

Please don't get me wrong, like I and many have said, if we screwed up we may give a little in this situation, but we all have lines that we have to draw and the coach can't cross that line ever, regardless of what takes place in a game. IMO in the OP the coach didn't cross MY line, especially if I just screwed up and he was commenting on it. And iF he made that comment like I pictured in the OP (throw-in was in front of his bench), then he's probably going to get a pass this time.

How in the world can you even begin to consider what this coach said a "legitimate" question???

There is no way that coach was asking the question for clarification purposes...he was being a smart-a$$. Now if that doesn't cross your imaginary line in the sand, so be it...but please don't try to explain it as a "legitimate" question.

For the record, I probably wouldn't have T'd the coach in the original situation. My response would have been along the lines of "OK, I deserved that one. But that's the only shot you get to take at my crew tonight coach." And then away we go...

chartrusepengui · #45 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 20, 2007, 03:12pm

This whole thing begins when the coach was ALREADY a problem when the official was going to report. To follow up with another display of rather unsporting behavior would have gotten an instant T from me. I know we are talking about a coach - but even he has to be smart enough to know that a comment like that is grounds for the T - regardless of what happened or didn't happen prior to the comment. An official being berated and forgetting a # is not an excuse or license to make unsporting comments to an official. Period!