T or not??

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

When I see a quick T after a missed to controversial call, it tells me that the official is defensive and/or doesn't react well in stressful situations. It also causes the official to lose a ton of credibility with coaches, partners, and players. And it's a lot harder to earn back what is lost.

Only in your rec leagues, Old School.

[swkansasref33]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

If the coach made OP forget the number, then OP choked, period. When I see a quick T after a missed to controversial call, it tells me that the official is defensive and/or doesn't react well in stressful situations. It also causes the official to lose a ton of credibility with coaches, partners, and players. And it's a lot harder to earn back what is lost.

who the hell said it was controversial?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

From the OP:

Originally Posted by MidMadness

II go to inbounds the ball near the teams bench that the foul was called....and I say Blue coming in....The coachs comment was ...Are you sure its blue coming in?? Surprised you can remember that???? Tor no t??? Thnaks

Sounds to me like it was very likely not a comment that was yelled across the gym to anyone. Take a little, laugh with the coach, and move on.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

From the OP:



Sounds to me like it was very likely not a comment that was yelled across the gym to anyone. Take a little, laugh with the coach, and move on.

Where did it say the coach was laughing? It seems as though many would like to make every excuse for the coach in this situation. If you have lived a charmed life as an official, I can understand your feelings. However, if you've experienced high school and college basketball like I have more than likely this coach is getting a T. Even if one of the players heard it, this is high school basketball and the adults are supposed to set the example for sportsmanship. There is nothing sporting about this comment - the poster never said he had a history with this coach and he knew the coach was joking, he actually posted this for the opposite reason: he wanted to know should he have given the coach a T. Do we really believe in sportsmanship or does it only matter some of the time? You best believe, one player or more heard this and that is too much. Does the referee have backing by the rule book to call this T? Of course. Can the referee not call the T and possibly let unsporting behavior go? Yes. We all have to decide, but it pains me to think someone would call a T because a player is saying, "ball, ball, ball" to another player, but will let this go.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Where did it say the coach was laughing? It seems as though many would like to make every excuse for the coach in this situation. If you have lived a charmed life as an official, I can understand your feelings. However, if you've experienced high school and college basketball like I have more than likely this coach is getting a T. Even if one of the players heard it, this is high school basketball and the adults are supposed to set the example for sportsmanship. There is nothing sporting about this comment - the poster never said he had a history with this coach and he knew the coach was joking, he actually posted this for the opposite reason: he wanted to know should he have given the coach a T. Do we really believe in sportsmanship or does it only matter some of the time? You best believe, one player or more heard this and that is too much. Does the referee have backing by the rule book to call this T? Of course. Can the referee not call the T and possibly let unsporting behavior go? Yes. We all have to decide, but it pains me to think someone would call a T because a player is saying, "ball, ball, ball" to another player, but will let this go.

It doesn't. I'm saying that I would add the laughter. If I just jacked something up, I'm not going to try and cover it by whacking the coach. I'm also not going to let a coach busting me in the chops on the wy to report cause me to forget the number. Dealing with that is a whole other concept.

Personally, if I've gotten to the table, forgot the number, and my partner(s) can't help me, I'm going to the floor captain. "Can you help me out with who that last foul was on, cause if you can't help me, I'm hanging it on you." Schtick happens, and yes, we all at times forget something. But c'mon, no need to be so uptight out there when a coach is ribbing you.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

It doesn't. I'm saying that I would add the laughter. If I just jacked something up, I'm not going to try and cover it by whacking the coach. I'm also not going to let a coach busting me in the chops on the wy to report cause me to forget the number. Dealing with that is a whole other concept.

Personally, if I've gotten to the table, forgot the number, and my partner(s) can't help me, I'm going to the floor captain. "Can you help me out with who that last foul was on, cause if you can't help me, I'm hanging it on you." Schtick happens, and yes, we all at times forget something. But c'mon, no need to be so uptight out there when a coach is ribbing you.

I guess that is another way of saying I'm going to ignore unsporting behavior because I need to grow a crop.

I like to laugh and joke with the best of them, but I'm not going to turn an unsporting matter into a laughing matter so I can say I've only given a coach X amount of Ts. Now I see how people call so few they can keep track. You shouldn't be so uptight about calling an earned technical foul. There is a difference between someone saying something to you when you mess up and being a jerk, maybe you should learn it.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I guess that is another way of saying I'm going to ignore unsporting behavior because I need to grow a crop.

I like to laugh and joke with the best of them, but I'm not going to turn an unsporting matter into a laughing matter so I can say I've only given a coach X amount of Ts. Now I see how people call so few they can keep track. You shouldn't be so uptight about calling an earned technical foul. There is a difference between someone saying something to you when you mess up and being a jerk, maybe you should learn it.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I've given my share of Ts and then some. My fellow officials will often call me John "T" Anderson I've been known to throw so many.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I guess that is another way of saying I'm going to ignore unsporting behavior because I need to grow a crop.

I like to laugh and joke with the best of them, but I'm not going to turn an unsporting matter into a laughing matter so I can say I've only given a coach X amount of Ts. Now I see how people call so few they can keep track. You shouldn't be so uptight about calling an earned technical foul. There is a difference between someone saying something to you when you mess up and being a jerk, maybe you should learn it.

Listen, I used to throw Ts out like they were candy, but I live in the real world. I am going to ask myself how much I contributed to the situation and use that in my analysis of whether a coach has one coming. Along with the question I always ask: Will this help this game?

I simply don't see it. Even if others could hear it, forgetting the number is what caused all of this and an official needs to know that there are times you take more from a coach as long as you can shut it down quickly.

[blindzebra]

Wow.

This is an easy T call.

So what some are saying is that the official calls a foul and the behavior of the coach causes the official to lose focus and forget the number.

The coach then gets a free shot because the official "screws up"?

So the official should mess up not only the number...which the coach caused...and then screw up the blatantly insulting comment by ignoring it?

Geesh, no wonder those of us that do take care of business have to.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Wow.

This is an easy T call.

So what some are saying is that the official calls a foul and the behavior of the coach causes the official to lose focus and forget the number.

The coach then gets a free shot because the official "screws up"?

So the official should mess up not only the number...which the coach caused...and then screw up the blatantly insulting comment by ignoring it?

Geesh, no wonder those of us that do take care of business have to.

That is exactly what they are saying. You are probably like me and stick out like a sore thumb. I would T this up without giving it a second thought. My bad, the only second thought would be if the coach said something else to get a second T.

[Mark Padgett]

As Dr. Naismith once said, "When in doubt, toss him out."

OK - he probably never said that, but it's good advice anyway.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Wow.

This is an easy T call.

So what some are saying is that the official calls a foul and the behavior of the coach causes the official to lose focus and forget the number.

The coach then gets a free shot because the official "screws up"?

So the official should mess up not only the number...which the coach caused...and then screw up the blatantly insulting comment by ignoring it?

Geesh, no wonder those of us that do take care of business have to.

Ah, geeze, bz, why did you have to go and agree with me? Now I've got to have weeks and weeks of counselling...

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Where did it say the coach was laughing? It seems as though many would like to make every excuse for the coach in this situation. If you have lived a charmed life as an official, I can understand your feelings. However, if you've experienced high school and college basketball like I have more than likely this coach is getting a T. Even if one of the players heard it, this is high school basketball and the adults are supposed to set the example for sportsmanship. There is nothing sporting about this comment - the poster never said he had a history with this coach and he knew the coach was joking, he actually posted this for the opposite reason: he wanted to know should he have given the coach a T. Do we really believe in sportsmanship or does it only matter some of the time? You best believe, one player or more heard this and that is too much. Does the referee have backing by the rule book to call this T? Of course. Can the referee not call the T and possibly let unsporting behavior go? Yes. We all have to decide, but it pains me to think someone would call a T because a player is saying, "ball, ball, ball" to another player, but will let this go.

Is it what he said that you're giving him a T on, regardless of the situation that happened before, or the tone he said it? It appears that you are not and will not take any of those factors into consideration, and you're whacking him on his words.

[canuckref]

Originally Posted by MidMadness

I had a foul the other day....Coach is busting on me on the way to report..I lose track of who the foul is on.....I ask my partner for help...He can't help me ...I go to the table and no one there is for sure..So I tell them to mark it down as a team foul....I go to inbounds the ball near the teams bench that the foul was called....and I say Blue coming in....The coachs comment was ...Are you sure its blue coming in?? Surprised you can remember that???? Tor no t??? Thnaks

That's a technical foul...not to sure what other rules say but Fiba has this:

38.3.2 A technical foul by a coach, assistant coach, substitute or team follower is a foul for disrespectfully communicating with or touching the officials, the commissioner, the table officials or the opponents, or an infraction of a procedural or an administrative nature.

It sure sounds to me like he was being disrespectful, denigrating your abilities as an official, interfering with your attempt to report by badgering you about the call as you report, being sarcastic and insulting following the inbound call...sounds to me like he's begging for it.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by canuckref

That's a technical foul...not to sure what other rules say but Fiba has this:

38.3.2 A technical foul by a coach, assistant coach, substitute or team follower is a foul for disrespectfully communicating with or touching the officials, the commissioner, the table officials or the opponents, or an infraction of a procedural or an administrative nature.

It sure sounds to me like he was being disrespectful, denigrating your abilities as an official, interfering with your attempt to report by badgering you about the call as you report, being sarcastic and insulting following the inbound call...sounds to me like he's begging for it.

So it is disrespectful for the coach to ask a legitimate question and comment without raising his/hers voice, after witnessing you forgetting what just took place less then 60 seconds prior?

Please don't get me wrong, like I and many have said, if we screwed up we may give a little in this situation, but we all have lines that we have to draw and the coach can't cross that line ever, regardless of what takes place in a game. IMO in the OP the coach didn't cross MY line, especially if I just screwed up and he was commenting on it. And iF he made that comment like I pictured in the OP (throw-in was in front of his bench), then he's probably going to get a pass this time.