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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 03:37pm
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Ahhh coaches..

Is there a penalty for this?

8th grade tourney this weekend...there is one team, wearing gold unis, they come out for warm-ups and there are kids with white, grey, black undershirts, black headbands, etc, we are playing nf rules so I have them remove all of the items and we play. After the game they go to play in another gym and then come back to the gym I am in to play the final game that I am scheduled for. Right as we are about to begin, I look over and notice that they have all of the illegal items on again. So I walk over into their huddle and go "guys didn't we just have this discussion?" The coach actually says to me "well they were sort of hoping you would be gone by now". I wanted to grab the coach by the throat and choke the life out of him! First problem of course is that the officials in the other gym let them get away with it, second problem is that this "coach" who is supposed to be an "adult" could care less about the message that he sends to a bunch of 13 year-olds...I know there is no penalty, but I thought for a minute about making something up, starting the game with a T, and parking his behind on the bench for the whole game..I think he knew I was not happy b/c I didn't hear a peep from him the whole game....
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 03:55pm
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Around here we only enforce the undershirt rule on high school games, not 8th grade or lower.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 03:59pm
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I WISH that is what they did around here, but they have specifically incorporated in the league rules that they want uniform policy enforced....believe me I don't do it b/c I enjoy it...
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 04:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Is there a penalty for this?

8th grade tourney this weekend...there is one team, wearing gold unis, they come out for warm-ups and there are kids with white, grey, black undershirts, black headbands, etc, we are playing nf rules so I have them remove all of the items and we play. After the game they go to play in another gym and then come back to the gym I am in to play the final game that I am scheduled for. Right as we are about to begin, I look over and notice that they have all of the illegal items on again. So I walk over into their huddle and go "guys didn't we just have this discussion?" The coach actually says to me "well they were sort of hoping you would be gone by now". I wanted to grab the coach by the throat and choke the life out of him! First problem of course is that the officials in the other gym let them get away with it, second problem is that this "coach" who is supposed to be an "adult" could care less about the message that he sends to a bunch of 13 year-olds...I know there is no penalty, but I thought for a minute about making something up, starting the game with a T, and parking his behind on the bench for the whole game..I think he knew I was not happy b/c I didn't hear a peep from him the whole game....
I let a dif color jersey play. The team was green, but the kid forgot his jersey and he had his warm up blue on. The oposing coach came up to me and said he didn't have an issue with it. I had just walked into the gym at this point so I hadn't even noticed yet. I discussed it with both coaches and due to the weather and what not and the fact that it was a 6th grade traveling team, I let it go.
__________________
I have heard more resumes in the last 3 months then in the first 27 years I've been on this planet.

Coach.. I dont care if you coached in the ncaa.. this is a 7th grade girls traveling team.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 04:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Around here we only enforce the undershirt rule on high school games, not 8th grade or lower.
I agree with your approach; however, our chapter has stated we should enforce the rule at all levels. They believe this is the only way we can have consistency among officials at all levels. As mentioned above, some refs let it go; others didnt. they hope to have all enforce it correctly. IMO if it is only the undershirt, it doesnt cause confusion. I only consider the jersies when I am making calls. I had rather find a way for all the kids to play than make a major issue over the undershirt.....
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 04:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splute
I agree with your approach; however, our chapter has stated we should enforce the rule at all levels. They believe this is the only way we can have consistency among officials at all levels. As mentioned above, some refs let it go; others didnt. they hope to have all enforce it correctly. IMO if it is only the undershirt, it doesnt cause confusion. I only consider the jersies when I am making calls. I had rather find a way for all the kids to play than make a major issue over the undershirt.....
I agree I would rather not deal with silly issues like this, but I would rather not deal with them at ANY level, not just MS. That being said if there are rules in place, I sort of think I need to enforce them..Honestly I don't get why officials let it go, especially with the boys game. It only takes a minute to have them take off the undershirt and the undershirt is not a crucial part of any uniform on the boys side...why not just enforce it? So they will be "uncomfortable" that game, all the better, maybe they won't do it next time! If everyone would then nobody would have a problem b/c the kids would adapt...
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 04:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
...why not just enforce it? So they will be "uncomfortable" that game, all the better, maybe they won't do it next time! If everyone would then nobody would have a problem b/c the kids would adapt...
Agreed and I do as requested. Dont have to like it; just do it. I believe if the parents knew the rule, the players would probably come correctly prepared (at least at the lower levels). Most parents just want their child to have an undershirt on because they are wearing tank tops for jersies. If they knew they needed a specific color or type I believe they would comply. The coaches could obviously go a long way in correcting this issue too. In my last game I told the players before we started where the arm sweatband had to be, non logo showing, etc.... by the first FT, the same player I told personally had moved it above the elbow.... I removed him and requested a sub. Coach had ALL players remove sweat bands after that.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 04:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Is there a penalty for this?

So I walk over into their huddle and go "guys didn't we just have this discussion?" The coach actually says to me "well they were sort of hoping you would be gone by now". I wanted to grab the coach by the throat and choke the life out of him! ...
So my question would be "Why would this make you so angry?" So the coach was a smart-a$$ and they tried to pull something on you. It didn't work and you took care of it. Instead of getting all bent, why not just smile and say "Nope. Still here. Still going to enforce that uniform rule. Thanks, Coach." and then just walk away...seriously, with all the important things that can come up, why start a game all pi$$ed off at the coach?

Don't get me wrong, the coach and team were being jerks, I just don't see the reason for getting that upset about it. Deal with it and move on...
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 04:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
So my question would be "Why would this make you so angry?" So the coach was a smart-a$$ and they tried to pull something on you. It didn't work and you took care of it. Instead of getting all bent, why not just smile and say "Nope. Still here. Still going to enforce that uniform rule. Thanks, Coach." and then just walk away...seriously, with all the important things that can come up, why start a game all pi$$ed off at the coach?

Don't get me wrong, the coach and team were being jerks, I just don't see the reason for getting that upset about it. Deal with it and move on...
ok you got me I wasn't going to literally choke him, I was just venting a little frustration about the fact that someone who was supposed to be an "adult" is teaching a bunch of 13 year-old kids that it's ok to do something if you can get away with it...it's not like i took it into the game for crying out loud...I didn't get into an argument with him, I didn't yell at him, I just walked away shaking my head...
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 05:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
ok you got me I wasn't going to literally choke him, I was just venting a little frustration about the fact that someone who was supposed to be an "adult" is teaching a bunch of 13 year-old kids that it's ok to do something if you can get away with it...it's not like i took it into the game for crying out loud...I didn't get into an argument with him, I didn't yell at him, I just walked away shaking my head...
While I haven't had to enforce this rule in basketball (I'm not working any upper-level games, and we don't enforce it in the lower levels), I can't relate to your experience exactly, but I do see something quite similar to this in softball. I have gone through, and thrown out illegal bats before, only to see them reappear in a few games, because the team thought they would be able to get away with it.

What someone said a few posts earlier is right though. All you can do is tell them that it's STILL illegal. No use getting upset over it. Is what the coach is doing wrong? Sure it is, but we've got to just move on and enforce the rules, regardless of the fact that the coach may be a jerk.
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 05:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewNCref
While I haven't had to enforce this rule in basketball (I'm not working any upper-level games, and we don't enforce it in the lower levels), I can't relate to your experience exactly, but I do see something quite similar to this in softball. I have gone through, and thrown out illegal bats before, only to see them reappear in a few games, because the team thought they would be able to get away with it.

What someone said a few posts earlier is right though. All you can do is tell them that it's STILL illegal. No use getting upset over it. Is what the coach is doing wrong? Sure it is, but we've got to just move on and enforce the rules, regardless of the fact that the coach may be a jerk.
Agree with you, that is basically what I did...doesn't stop me from WANTING to do something about it, but I am able to separate what I would like to see happen from what I know needs to happen...I know there is no penalty so I didn't impose one, but when you see this time after time after time it just gets old...like I said just venting a little frustration, not the first on this board..
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 05:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
ok you got me I wasn't going to literally choke him, I was just venting a little frustration about the fact that someone who was supposed to be an "adult" is teaching a bunch of 13 year-old kids that it's ok to do something if you can get away with it...it's not like i took it into the game for crying out loud...I didn't get into an argument with him, I didn't yell at him, I just walked away shaking my head...
Oh, I get it. So when you said you were "not happy" and the coach must have known it, you were just kidding there also...I fully understood that the part about "choking the life out of him" was not meant literally, but I still don't understand why you got upset by the whole thing. Oh well, next time just choke away!
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 05:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
Oh, I get it. So when you said you were "not happy" and the coach must have known it, you were just kidding there also...I fully understood that the part about "choking the life out of him" was not meant literally, but I still don't understand why you got upset by the whole thing. Oh well, next time just choke away!
OK maybe you really did get me - I was a little pissed BUT I did not bring it into the game...like I said it was less the "rule" that I could really care less about, more the message it sends to the kids..at that point I was thinking more as a parent, but like I said once the game starts all that is off....keep in mind again that this is MS and I admit I tend to be a little more "proactive" with MS coaches, this would never have happened in a HS game..MS coaches sometimes need a little something extra to get the point across in my experience..
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 07:31pm
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No $$$

The assigner for the Catholic School Deanery games, in which I officiate, has told us that we will not get paid if he finds out that we let players play with illegal undershirts, and/or illegal headbands or wristbands. We have been told not to enforce the "Home White" rule. These players range from fifth grade through eighth grade.
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Old Mon Dec 17, 2007, 10:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splute
IMO if it is only the undershirt, it doesnt cause confusion. I only consider the jersies when I am making calls. I had rather find a way for all the kids to play than make a major issue over the undershirt.....
I completely agree with this....in my rec league that I'm on the Board with...they instituted a white undershirt only for the kids with NO printing on it...I think it's a bit overkill for a rec league and if I were present the night they proposed it I would have voted against it. It's rec league and you require every kid to play 2 quarters but you won't let him play if he has an undershirt on the same color as his jersey?
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