delay of game warning or not?

[Air JC]

My partner made this call...

A1 scores a layup from a half court set. Many players are in the lane at the time.

As ball passes through the net, B1 slaps the ball (not too hard, but obviously ticked off that she got beat on D)

My partner gave B1 a delay of game warning. I have never seen the warning called this way, what do you guys think about calling the delay warning on the team about to inbound the ball?

Other officials have told me that my partner should have just started the 5 count when B1 slapped the ball since it was at her disposal.

There is not a great deal of room in this gym, so it's not like the ball went flying far away from the baseline, but in a large gym, the ball could roll very far away in a situation like this. Do you start the 5 count? Call time until you can place the ball at the disposal of team B? Or call the delay of game warning (or T, if 2nd violation)?

[rainmaker]

I've never seen it cal1led this way, and I don't k1now why you'd want to. 2The 5 second count would serve the purpose of st1opping this kind of nonsense, wouldn't it?

[zebraman]

Weird call. Delay of game is supposed to punish you when you delay the "other team," not your own. Let the 5-second call do it's job on this situation.

Z

[paulis]

Was the team that got the warning ahead? Late in the game? Might their actions have cost the other team some valuable time? Issue the warning or blow the whistle and stop the clock so as not to penalize the team trying to catch up.

[Mark Padgett]

By rule, you cannot call this delay on the team about to inbound the ball. You should start your 5 second count because that player had the opportunity to take the ball OOB. However, you can call a T for preventing the ball from being put promptly into play, if you want. There is no legal warning that can be a part of this call, however. (NF rules)

[Bart Tyson]

slaps the ball not too hard. I am going to ignore it. Its not like she's doing it every time. I will start the count when they ready for the throwin.

[daves]

Start the count, no delay warning.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
By rule, you cannot call this delay on the team about to inbound the ball. You should start your 5 second count because that player had the opportunity to take the ball OOB. However, you can call a T for preventing the ball from being put promptly into play, if you want. There is no legal warning that can be a part of this call, however. (NF rules)

I disagree with the "by rule" portion. Nothing in 4-46 or 10-1-5d says "by the team that just scored."

I do agree that it would be a rare call, and was probably properly handled in the original situation.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I disagree with the "by rule" portion. Nothing in 4-46 or 10-1-5d says "by the team that just scored."

I do agree that it would be a rare call, and was probably properly handled in the original situation.

Bob - the word "interfering" is the key to me. The team entitled to the ball cannot "interfere" with the ball being put into play because when their player touches it, it is at their disposal. You cannot "interfere" with yourself. The term implies the ball was touched by the team not entitled to it because only they can "interfere" with a team's ability to put the ball promptly into play, which is the rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I disagree with the "by rule" portion. Nothing in 4-46 or 10-1-5d says "by the team that just scored."

I do agree that it would be a rare call, and was probably properly handled in the original situation.

Bob,how about R10-3-7a?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Bob,how about R10-3-7a?

JR - I think you may be confusing two points. bob was trying to make the point that the rule does not indicate that you could not call a legal delay warning against the team entitled to the ball under the rules dealing specifically with interfering with the ball after a basket. My point there was that a team could not "interfere" with itself, and that the implication was you could only invoke this rule against the team not entitled to the ball. After all, if you could make the case that a team could interfere with itself, then you would have a foul if A2 bumped A1 while shooting and caused the shot to miss. OK - that's a stretch, but not by much, actually.

Then, I made the point that under the player technical rule (the one you quoted), you might call a T if their hit of the ball knocked it away, but I still don't think you could invoke that since it is at their disposal at that point and you are in your 5 second count, so it really doesn't delay the game under the intent of that rule.

There - now it's clear as mud.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

There - now it's clear as mud. [/B]

Yup,I get it now!

[Slider]

Originally posted by Air JC
Other officials have told me that my partner should have just started the 5 count when B1 slapped the ball since it was at her disposal.

I don't know if we should say that the ball is at her team's disposal.

We allow time outs in this situation by A, so I don't think we should stretch disposal out to the basket (usually teams immediately take it OOB, so this issue doesn't arise).

IMO, the correct thing is the delay warning for interference, 10-1-5d.

I know many here don't agree with the interpretation, but my reasoning is in-line with [Dick Knox's] interpretation regarding a player never taking the ball OOB and then making a "throw-in."


[Edited by Slider on Feb 9th, 2002 at 07:33 PM]

[BktBallRef]

When the ball is on the floor and B is making no effort to pick it up and inbound it, I begin my count.

When the ball is in the hands of a member of the throwing team and he doesn't step OOB, I begin my count.

When the ball is at the disposal and the throwing team bats the ball, I begin my count.

[Slider]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
When the ball is on the floor and B is making no effort to pick it up and inbound it, I begin my count.

When the ball is in the hands of a member of the throwing team and he doesn't step OOB, I begin my count.

When the ball is at the disposal and the throwing team bats the ball, I begin my count.

How do you reconcile that with your support for [Dick Knox's] interpretation (delay warning) for a player who never goes OOB for a throw-in?

[Edited by Slider on Feb 9th, 2002 at 07:34 PM]