Coach Issues

[Adam]

I'm just asking, 'cause you've just stated you're willing to set aside bench decorum rules in a freshman game rather than make waves with the all-powerful varsity coach. I'm just wondering exactly how compliant you think officials should be for Lord Coach.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm just asking, 'cause you've just stated you're willing to set aside bench decorum rules in a freshman game rather than make waves with the all-powerful varsity coach. I'm just wondering exactly how compliant you think officials should be for Lord Coach.

Let me think. On 12/7 I teed an assistant coach. I didn't want to do it his team was getting blown out but he was sceaming at me. On 12/14 I teed a varsity coach with 6 seconds left in a three point game and teed him again after he came after me when the game was over. He was of course ejected. And on 12/15 I teed a player for unsporting conduct. It was an interesting week.

Did I answer your question.

[Adam]

So your previous post was just irony? Sorry, it's been a long week.

[dan74]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

Also, these guys are correct about assistant coaches. They should not be involved with officials at all. Instead of threatening or giving an automatic T, a simple comment to the head coach that you are working for him only, not his assistants, and you only want to hear from or interact with him, that will work almost every time with little conflict. Virtually every time the HC will tell the bench to shut up, and appreciate the subtle warning.

Disclaimer: The works well at the Varsity HS and College levels. I am certain that this would not work well at times in JH or AAU ball.

For the newer officials: Although I may be reading into the above a bit too literally, my input is to not tell a head coach "that you are working for him only." We administer the rules...we aren't subordinate or beholding to coaches.

[tomegun]

I don't understand why this has to be such a big comment to the head coach. Maybe that is the problem, some people want every comment to a coach to be earth shattering. Asking the coach to control his bench doesn't have to be about two men squaring off. That is why some people come on here and are so broken up about giving a T. Forget all the witty/smart comments and get some guts!
This is why I wouldn't have absolutes about assistants: you can use them. I learned this many years ago from college. Assistants keep track of certain things during a game and when you want a coach to break the huddle, the assistant is probably the only one looking at you. Depending on the assistant, I will use them to help with certain situations. For instance, last night I asked an assistant to make sure none of the players were wearing white shirts under their blue jerseys - there was no other communication with an assistant. However, when it comes to complaining, they have no voice. That is when I ask the coach to control his/her bench. After that, it is open season. I'm of the opinion that your Ts will go down once you become established - if you handle things correctly early on. I have moved around more than most and I'm not shy about calling a well-earned T. Once a coach realizes I don't care about calling whatever is appropriate, the behavior changes.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

Why you say. Let see. I toss the Varsity Coach in a Freshman Game. A game noone gives a second thought about played in obscurity in the auxilary gym. I'll Tee and toss Frosh Coaches and I'll Tee and toss Varsity Coaches (in fact I did this a week ago) in Varsity Games. In my state the coach is suspended one game at the level he was coaching. He/she sits one Frosh Game. In the meantime they can't coach the Varsity Team until the suspension is served. At this point I think my officiating career is over unless I move to another state.

It's not worth the heat. Kind of like pulling the Police Chief over and writing him a ticket on a Sunday when he's not working.

Would be really funny if an AD from another school or a HS assignor was at that game watching his freshman child playing, wouldn't it? What do you think your chances of getting another game anywhere would be if he/she witnessed your lack of bench decorum management?

The minute you use the word "only" to describe the level of game you are officiating is the exact moment you need to stop officiating that level of ball. And I'm not making a value judgement here. Just saying if a certain level of basketball is in the "only" category why would you continue to ref it.

And another question, since when are we supposed to keep track of other "titles" of the bench personnel? I assume anyone sitting on the bench not wearing a uniform falls in one of 4 categories: Head Coach of that team; assistant coach of that team; injured player; trainer.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And another question, since when are we supposed to keep track of other "titles" of the bench personnel? I assume anyone sitting on the bench not wearing a uniform falls in one of 4 categories: Head Coach of that team; assistant coach of that team; injured player; trainer.

"Bench personnel." All are the same with the same rights and responsibilities (none).

[IchiRef]

FYI - in case anyone was wondering here is a little epilogue...

we called a good game tonight and this V-Coach (which I find out is also the AD) is the one who unlocks our dressing room, brings us a bottle of water, etc... and he was nice to use. We called really good games without anything out of the ordinary, except maybe an obvious intentional foul call (against his team). After the game, the JV coach, who is young and apparently took a page from V-coach's playbook and asks (respectfully) to talk to me before i go get changed, I comply and he started talking about how i disrespected his players because of the lack of calls, some of his players were crying (JV Boys) we did not talk to him, but just went to our dressing room.

Then this V-Coach/AD comes in and tells me that he will make sure that i never ref there again. since we had a good game i can only assume he is still bent out of shape about the original post situation and would have said this no matter how tonight went. I can think of nothing even close to anything he would have had a problem with tonight (BTW he had no problem with my partner) Also they have really really bad teams, this doesn't help things...Weird stuff...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

FYI - in case anyone was wondering here is a little epilogue...

we called a good game tonight and this V-Coach (which I find out is also the AD) is the one who unlocks our dressing room, brings us a bottle of water, etc... and he was nice to use. We called really good games without anything out of the ordinary, except maybe an obvious intentional foul call (against his team). After the game, the JV coach, who is young and apparently took a page from V-coach's playbook and asks (respectfully) to talk to me before i go get changed, I comply and he started talking about how i disrespected his players because of the lack of calls, some of his players were crying (JV Boys) we did not talk to him, but just went to our dressing room.

Then this V-Coach/AD comes in and tells me that he will make sure that i never ref there again. since we had a good game i can only assume he is still bent out of shape about the original post situation and would have said this no matter how tonight went. I can think of nothing even close to anything he would have had a problem with tonight (BTW he had no problem with my partner) Also they have really really bad teams, this doesn't help things...Weird stuff...

This needs to get filed with your state, your assigner, your pastor, and your bishop. Okay, you might be able to leave the pastor and bishop out, but I'd definitely file a full report with your assigner and state governing body. If your assigner has any testicular fortitude, you'll have a couple more games with this coach again.

This is a pattern and this AD has issues.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by IchiRef

After the game, the JV coach, who is young and apparently took a page from V-coach's playbook and asks (respectfully) to talk to me before i go get changed, I comply and he started talking about how i disrespected his players because of the lack of calls, some of his players were crying (JV Boys) we did not talk to him, but just went to our dressing room.

Just a suggestion....fwiw.....

If a coach asks to talk to you post-game, tell the coach that you will do so only if he has a question about the rules that he would like answered. Tell him right up front before any discussion that if he just wants to b!tch about anything, there will be no discussion. If he does start to b!tch, then do exactly what you did above. Turn your back and leave. Nothing that you will say will ever change their minds.

Don't ever let these clowns get to you either.