"Letting Them Play..."

[tomegun]

This whole post became a blur after I read that someone thinks Violet Palmer is the worst official in the NBA. That just goes to show that some people don't even know what they are watching when they claim to be officials. I have never met her, but I don't recall anyone saying anything bad about her off the court and she is a playoff official on the court. I can immediately think of a few NBA officials who are obviously worse...if you know what to look for.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

To fix that, strategic calls must be made to show everyone what the expectations are.

Whatintheheck are "strategic" calls?

[Texas Aggie]

Kids were swinging elbows, pushing, traveling, just a very out of control situation which led to a few kids getting hurt and the crowd was absolutely out of control.

I can assure you that this would have happened regardless of what the officials called. You just would have been there longer and shot more free throws. I've never seen a jr. high team respond to what the officials are calling, other than with replaced players who usually continue what's happening.

I've had jr. high games with more than 40 fouls called and one with as few as 4 fouls called. Nobody's injury has ever been healed by the whistle blowing, and in my experience, the roughest games are the ones with the most foul calls. One thing rarely has anything to do with the other. But sometimes you have to keep blowing regardless; other times, there's no reason to blow.

As far as the crowd getting out of control, yelling is not out of control. Were they throwing stuff? Coming on to the court? If so, then yes, they were out of control and that should have been dealt with. Absent that, there wasn't a crowd problem.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

This whole post became a blur after I read that someone thinks Violet Palmer is the worst official in the NBA. That just goes to show that some people don't even know what they are watching when they claim to be officials. I have never met her, but I don't recall anyone saying anything bad about her off the court and she is a playoff official on the court. I can immediately think of a few NBA officials who are obviously worse...if you know what to look for.

It is funny how we tend to see many of these things the same way. I was thinking the exact same thing. I stopped reading after I heard that quote.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

Ms Palmer, if she were the worst ref in the NBA, she wouldn't still be there. THey've got a number of very good women refs in their D league, and they certainly don't need to keep her for political reasons.

I don't have an opinion on Palmer because I've rarely seen her and also because I haven't got the foggiest idea of what a good NBA official is and what a bad one is due to the league's officiating being so screwed up. However, I disagree with both statements you've made here. The worst ref isn't always fired. If you are going to have any ranking system, someone will be last. How many NFL Referees (white hat) are fired every year or two? Few, if any, because the position is filled with people that are so damn good, even numbers 16 and 17, by rating, are well thought of. If they fired the worst, there's never be any new official make it past a year or two.

Second, I do think a big motivation for her initial hire was politically based, and they COULD still be keeping her for that reason. Perhaps they do believe she is one of the better ones, but your statement here isn't necessarily true.

The NBA is an entertainment venue first and a competitive professional sports league second.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is funny how we tend to see many of these things the same way. I was thinking the exact same thing. I stopped reading after I heard that quote.

Peace

Why is it such a big deal that I dont think she is very good??

ok.. so maybe I went overboard with the worst official remark, but I just dont think she is very good compared to many of her conterparts. Its just my opinion. (which has been known to be wrong from time to time.)

I'm just starting out, so you may be right.. also I havn't seen one of her games in a while so I'll have to watch again and see if she improved since.

That being said.. I know of a few other official who agree with my opinion on violet palmer. One of them being a very seasoned official and has been reffing for almost 40 years.

I'm not the only one...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Why is it such a big deal that I dont think she is very good??

ok.. so maybe I went overboard with the worst official remark, but I just dont think she is very good compared to many of her conterparts. Its just my opinion. (which has been known to be wrong from time to time.)

I'm just starting out, so you may be right.. also I havn't seen one of her games in a while so I'll have to watch again and see if she improved since.

That being said.. I know of a few other official who agree with my opinion on violet palmer. One of them being a very seasoned official and has been reffing for almost 40 years.

I'm not the only one...

Well, 10,000 people who agree with you don't mean you're right... it also doesn't mean you're wrong, though...

Since it's just an opinion, you could probably word it like this...

"I don't like Violet Palmer. I wish they'd get rid of her. I don't think she is very good."

And don't be afraid to change your mind. Maybe after you've been reffing some more you'll see things differently. You just never know.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Why is it such a big deal that I dont think she is very good??

ok.. so maybe I went overboard with the worst official remark, but I just dont think she is very good compared to many of her conterparts. Its just my opinion. (which has been known to be wrong from time to time.)

I'm just starting out, so you may be right.. also I havn't seen one of her games in a while so I'll have to watch again and see if she improved since.

That being said.. I know of a few other official who agree with my opinion on violet palmer. One of them being a very seasoned official and has been reffing for almost 40 years.

I'm not the only one...

Whether you like it or not, you have not been around or been in enough wars to know what a good official truly does or does not do at this point. You have a right to your opinion and the right to say it. But I think the fact this is your first year, talking about the ability of an NBA Official is probably not a good idea. I am sure there other others that might have an opinion about her that is similar, but there are not officials that are in that class you hear saying that. And I rarely hear a bad word about her from players and she almost never seems to be at the forefront which seems to be things people like in an official. I do not even think I am qualified to say she is the worst official in the NBA. All I am is a HS and semi-college official.

Peace

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Whether you like it or not, you have not been around or been in enough wars to know what a good official truly does or does not do at this point. You have a right to your opinion and the right to say it. But I think the fact this is your first year, talking about the ability of an NBA Official is probably not a good idea. I am sure there other others that might have an opinion about her that is similar, but there are not officials that are in that class you hear saying that. And I rarely hear a bad word about her from players and she almost never seems to be at the forefront which seems to be things people like in an official. I do not even think I am qualified to say she is the worst official in the NBA. All I am is a HS and semi-college official.

Peace

Point taken...

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

However, I disagree with both statements you've made here. The worst ref isn't always fired. If you are going to have any ranking system, someone will be last..

Well, yea, but if she'd been the worst for as many years as she's been there, I doubt she'd have lasted.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

How many NFL Referees (white hat) are fired every year or two? Few, if any, because the position is filled with people that are so damn good, even numbers 16 and 17, by rating, are well thought of. If they fired the worst, there's never be any new official make it past a year or two..

But new officials don't stay at the bottom year after year. They either move up or they go out. I expect it's the same in the NBA.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Second, I do think a big motivation for her initial hire was politically based, and they COULD still be keeping her for that reason. Perhaps they do believe she is one of the better ones, but your statement here isn't necessarily true.

Definitely a political decision at the beginning. BUt there are other people who they could put in to fill the PC needs. If Violet Palmer wasn't good, she'd be gone. She's moved up, she's well spoken of, she's in place. All because the NBA thinkx she's good.

[Bearfanmike20]

Definitely a political decision at the beginning. BUt there are other people who they could put in to fill the PC needs. If Violet Palmer wasn't good, she'd be gone. She's moved up, she's well spoken of, she's in place. All because the NBA thinkx she's good.

This is true because the NBA let go of the only other female official because of poor performance.

I've been researching this and found that little nugget.

[Y2Koach]

One time, my team was playing a game. For some reason, the officials did not want the players to play. So every time the players from either team would start to play, the officials would blow the whistle and call some type of violation. The only time the officials did not call anything was when they missed an inbound violation, and A1 held the ball without dribbling at half court, and the other 4 offensive players and 5 defensive players stood motionless. When A1 got tired and A2 tried to take his place, the subsequent bounce pass was deemed a basketball manuver, so a violation was called. I was left with no choice but to yell at the officials "let them play!!!"

True story...

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by TheOracle

The term or idea of "taking over" a game indicates that you have to control what is happening.

Incorrect. It means that we are in control; but we do not control the actions of the players or the outcome of the game. We are in control of the game at all times.

There are times when the game gets messy, and calls need to be made to set the expectation that basketball needs to be played and some kind of flow established. More often than not, when the most aggressive players go to the bench with foul trouble, the game miraculously cleans up.

The worst thing that can occur in a messy part of the game is to overcall. The game got a little messy for a reason. Players got hyped up. Some non-calls or passes got players upset, emotional, or gave them the impression that they could get away with aggressive play. To fix that, strategic calls must be made to show everyone what the expectations are.

These two paragraphs are a complete mess. There are lots of lower level games in which you can make calls with whatever expectations you want, and the players do not adjust. You have to keep blowing the whistle and you don't ever get a flow. Your expectations have little impact on the game. You have to continue to call the game, regardless of how well your expectations are met.

Secondly, it is clearly NOT the worst thing to over-call in a messy or rough game. I don't even know how you could think such a thing. You just got finished writing that you should call fouls until the aggressive players go to the bench -- but don't over-call.

If you have a game that is overly-aggressive and the players are not responding to your "normal" calls, then you MUST over-call. Call everything until they play basketball or until they sit. Then you can go back to your "normal" game.

The biggest mistake less experienced officials make is to blow a whistle that doesn't need to be blown, because that cannot be fixed.

Hardly.

And if a crew or officials starts overcalling to "take over" a messy game, that does very little to reset or reinforce the expectations of what is acceptable.

While it may make the crew look slightly inconsistent, it absolutely sends the message that the way the game is being played is unacceptable.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

For some reason, the officials did not want the players to play. So every time the players from either team would start to play, the officials would blow the whistle and call some type of violation. . . When A1 got tired and A2 tried to take his place, the subsequent bounce pass was deemed a basketball manuver, so a violation was called. I was left with no choice but to yell at the officials "let them play!!!"

There's more to this story than what you posted.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

There's more to this story than what you posted.

I'm guessing it's a unique skill to be able to type with your tongue planted firmly in your cheek.