My fault...

[PIAA REF]

I had a varsity game a couple of days ago and am frustrated about a certain series of events. Here is the scenerio:
A makes bucket, I am going to become the new lead. I get about 8 feet behind the half court and there is a steal by A. As I am running back to fron court there is a quick pass to a player that is directly infront of my view. The players shoots the ball quickly and there is no way I could tell where her feet were. Since the play was in transition I first look to lead for help. He signals a 2 pointer. So I leave it be. A few plays later the official that was center comes over and says that was a 3. Since this was no longer correctable we leave it be. I am a little upset at this point because we had went over in our pregame that if we have a situation that a 2 needs to be a 3 or vice-versa, blow it dead immediately and give the signal to the table. No need to discuss it. The day after the game I run into the center official. He says he has been thinking about that play. He says it was 50% his fault, 30% mine, 20% the leads. I just don't get it. How in the blue hell am I at fault for this one. His reasoning is I shouldn't have gotten straight lined. This was a transition play and it wouldn't have matter what I did I wasn't going to see the players feet. Am I wrong on this. I have just been frustrated by this situation. Any insight would be great.

[jdw3018]

It's the crew's fault. That's all that matters.

However, according to your pregame, your partner should have blown it dead.

Are you really arguing about "%s of fault?"

[Adam]

89.8978074189073078% of all percentages are made up on the spot.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

I had a varsity game a couple of days ago and am frustrated about a certain series of events. Here is the scenerio:
A makes bucket, I am going to become the new lead. I get about 8 feet behind the half court and there is a steal by A. As I am running back to fron court there is a quick pass to a player that is directly infront of my view. The players shoots the ball quickly and there is no way I could tell where her feet were. Since the play was in transition I first look to lead for help. He signals a 2 pointer. So I leave it be. A few plays later the official that was center comes over and says that was a 3. Since this was no longer correctable we leave it be. I am a little upset at this point because we had went over in our pregame that if we have a situation that a 2 needs to be a 3 or vice-versa, blow it dead immediately and give the signal to the table. No need to discuss it. The day after the game I run into the center official. He says he has been thinking about that play. He says it was 50% his fault, 30% mine, 20% the leads. I just don't get it. How in the blue hell am I at fault for this one. His reasoning is I shouldn't have gotten straight lined. This was a transition play and it wouldn't have matter what I did I wasn't going to see the players feet. Am I wrong on this. I have just been frustrated by this situation. Any insight would be great.

You are at fault for listening to this guy. He knew it was a 3 and he waited too long to blow the whistle. Just let it go. (...now if that isn't the most hypocritical thing I've ever said...)

[Dan_ref]

Why did the L signal 2? Was he guessing?

[FrankHtown]

Just for clarification...why was this not correctible? It was an official's error, the official had knowledge of the event, it wasn't a rule that was inadverently set aside....

It wasn't erroneously counting or cancelling a score. Why wouldn't this be able to be corrected up until the official's approval of the final score?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Just for clarification...why was this not correctible? It was an official's error, the official had knowledge of the event, it wasn't a rule that was inadverently set aside....

It wasn't erroneously counting or cancelling a score. Why wouldn't this be able to be corrected up until the official's approval of the final score?

It falls under that heading. You get until the (start of the) second live ball to correct it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It falls under that heading. You get until the (start of the) second live ball to correct it.

Is this specified somewhere, bob, or is it just one of those "everybody knows that" things? 'Cause I didn't.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Just for clarification...why was this not correctible? It was an official's error, the official had knowledge of the event, it wasn't a rule that was inadverently set aside....

It wasn't erroneously counting or cancelling a score. Why wouldn't this be able to be corrected up until the official's approval of the final score?

2-10
ART. 1 . . . Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in:
e. Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

ART. 3 . . . If in Article 1e the error is made while the clock is running and the ball dead, it must be recognized by an official before the second live ball.

So, according to article 3, the crew had until the end of the next dead ball after the thrown-in following the suspect try to make the fix. Once that time has come and gone, the points actually awarded, stick.

However, if a scoring mistake is made by the score keeper, then it could be rectified at any other time before final approval. But that isn’t what happened according the OP.

[Vinski]

BTW, my opinion is it wasn’t your fault at all. Either your lead guessed or your center forgot to blow the whistle to fix it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

A few plays later the official that was center comes over and says that was a 3. Since this was no longer correctable we leave it be.

Who said this is no longer correctable? If it was a 3 that you know went into the book as a 2, this is a bookkeeping mistake. So correct it.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Who said this is no longer correctable? If it was a 3 that you know went into the book as a 2, this is a bookkeeping mistake. So correct it.

I don't believe this is accurate. If it was signaled a two by the officials (which it apparently was), then it falls under the correctable error rule. If it was signaled a three but recorded as two by the bookkeeper, then it was a bookkeeping mistake.

[PIAA REF]

Not if it was rule a 2 on the court, as we did. Also I agree with calls being the crew fault I was just a little confused of how I could ever see that it was a 3 with how the play evolved. Oh well, I guess I just need to let this one go. I work with the same official tonight.

[inigo montoya]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

Not if it was rule a 2 on the court, as we did. Also I agree with calls being the crew fault I was just a little confused of how I could ever see that it was a 3 with how the play evolved. Oh well, I guess I just need to let this one go. I work with the same official tonight.

Sometimes, you know, the scorers mistake a signal for a 2 to be a 3... creating a bookkeeping mistake. If you know what I mean.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

As I am running back to fron court there is a quick pass to a player that is directly infront of my view. The players shoots the ball quickly and there is no way I could tell where her feet were.

Originally Posted by PIAA REF

How in the blue hell am I at fault for this one. His reasoning is I shouldn't have gotten straight lined.

PIAA REF, I might have to agree with your partner on this one. According to your description, you were in the front court as T, the player who shoots is "directly in front" of you, so isn't this play in your primary? Why would you think it's you partner(s)' fault for not watching and making a call in your primary?

We all get straight-lined from time to time, but I try to make sure it happens as infrequently as possible. In this case, maybe you should've been either off the court, or a little wider off the sideline to see that angle. There's a chance the L might look back to help you out, but the C might also help if the player taking the shot is close to that "gray area" in between coverages. I agree with Dan in that if the L is telling you it's a 2, then they definitely see a foot on the line. If the C was certain it was a 3, they should've blown the whistle right there, counted the 3, give the ball to the other team and away we go. But because he didn't come in and blow the whistle right away, maybe he wasn't 100% sure. However, by the time they give you this information, it's too late to change it.