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PIAA REF Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:55pm

My fault...
 
I had a varsity game a couple of days ago and am frustrated about a certain series of events. Here is the scenerio:
A makes bucket, I am going to become the new lead. I get about 8 feet behind the half court and there is a steal by A. As I am running back to fron court there is a quick pass to a player that is directly infront of my view. The players shoots the ball quickly and there is no way I could tell where her feet were. Since the play was in transition I first look to lead for help. He signals a 2 pointer. So I leave it be. A few plays later the official that was center comes over and says that was a 3. Since this was no longer correctable we leave it be. I am a little upset at this point because we had went over in our pregame that if we have a situation that a 2 needs to be a 3 or vice-versa, blow it dead immediately and give the signal to the table. No need to discuss it. The day after the game I run into the center official. He says he has been thinking about that play. He says it was 50% his fault, 30% mine, 20% the leads. I just don't get it. How in the blue hell am I at fault for this one. His reasoning is I shouldn't have gotten straight lined. This was a transition play and it wouldn't have matter what I did I wasn't going to see the players feet. Am I wrong on this. I have just been frustrated by this situation. Any insight would be great.

jdw3018 Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:57pm

It's the crew's fault. That's all that matters.

However, according to your pregame, your partner should have blown it dead.

Are you really arguing about "%s of fault?"

Adam Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:57pm

89.8978074189073078% of all percentages are made up on the spot.

rainmaker Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF
I had a varsity game a couple of days ago and am frustrated about a certain series of events. Here is the scenerio:
A makes bucket, I am going to become the new lead. I get about 8 feet behind the half court and there is a steal by A. As I am running back to fron court there is a quick pass to a player that is directly infront of my view. The players shoots the ball quickly and there is no way I could tell where her feet were. Since the play was in transition I first look to lead for help. He signals a 2 pointer. So I leave it be. A few plays later the official that was center comes over and says that was a 3. Since this was no longer correctable we leave it be. I am a little upset at this point because we had went over in our pregame that if we have a situation that a 2 needs to be a 3 or vice-versa, blow it dead immediately and give the signal to the table. No need to discuss it. The day after the game I run into the center official. He says he has been thinking about that play. He says it was 50% his fault, 30% mine, 20% the leads. I just don't get it. How in the blue hell am I at fault for this one. His reasoning is I shouldn't have gotten straight lined. This was a transition play and it wouldn't have matter what I did I wasn't going to see the players feet. Am I wrong on this. I have just been frustrated by this situation. Any insight would be great.

You are at fault for listening to this guy. He knew it was a 3 and he waited too long to blow the whistle. Just let it go. (...now if that isn't the most hypocritical thing I've ever said...)

Dan_ref Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:02pm

Why did the L signal 2? Was he guessing?

just another ref Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF
A few plays later the official that was center comes over and says that was a 3. Since this was no longer correctable we leave it be.

Who said this is no longer correctable? If it was a 3 that you know went into the book as a 2, this is a bookkeeping mistake. So correct it.

jdw3018 Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref
Who said this is no longer correctable? If it was a 3 that you know went into the book as a 2, this is a bookkeeping mistake. So correct it.

I don't believe this is accurate. If it was signaled a two by the officials (which it apparently was), then it falls under the correctable error rule. If it was signaled a three but recorded as two by the bookkeeper, then it was a bookkeeping mistake.

PIAA REF Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:19pm

Not if
 
Not if it was rule a 2 on the court, as we did. Also I agree with calls being the crew fault I was just a little confused of how I could ever see that it was a 3 with how the play evolved. Oh well, I guess I just need to let this one go. I work with the same official tonight.

FrankHtown Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:25pm

Just for clarification...why was this not correctible? It was an official's error, the official had knowledge of the event, it wasn't a rule that was inadverently set aside....

It wasn't erroneously counting or cancelling a score. Why wouldn't this be able to be corrected up until the official's approval of the final score?

inigo montoya Thu Dec 06, 2007 02:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PIAA REF
Not if it was rule a 2 on the court, as we did. Also I agree with calls being the crew fault I was just a little confused of how I could ever see that it was a 3 with how the play evolved. Oh well, I guess I just need to let this one go. I work with the same official tonight.

Sometimes, you know, the scorers mistake a signal for a 2 to be a 3... creating a bookkeeping mistake. If you know what I mean.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 06, 2007 03:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankHtown
Just for clarification...why was this not correctible? It was an official's error, the official had knowledge of the event, it wasn't a rule that was inadverently set aside....

It wasn't erroneously counting or cancelling a score. Why wouldn't this be able to be corrected up until the official's approval of the final score?

It falls under that heading. You get until the (start of the) second live ball to correct it.

just another ref Thu Dec 06, 2007 04:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
It falls under that heading. You get until the (start of the) second live ball to correct it.

Is this specified somewhere, bob, or is it just one of those "everybody knows that" things? 'Cause I didn't.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 06, 2007 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref
Is this specified somewhere, bob, or is it just one of those "everybody knows that" things? 'Cause I didn't.

I don't have my books with me, so I can't search for a specific cite. I do know it's specifically in a recent NCAAW memo.

Ron Pilo Thu Dec 06, 2007 04:48pm

Not covered by the correctable error rule. Correctable error rule is concerning Free-throws.
If the official had definate knowledge that is was a Three, FIX IT! any time before the final score is approved......
:o


Opps.........kbilla........you are so right.............2.10.1 sit F is it...........:D

kbilla Thu Dec 06, 2007 04:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
I don't have my books with me, so I can't search for a specific cite. I do know it's specifically in a recent NCAAW memo.

This is basically casebook play 2.10.1 sit F....in the situation the error is corrected, but only b/c it is still prior to the second dead ball becoming live...it doesn't say "why" the covering official did not give the 3-pt signal, the point is that he/she didn't give it. In the sit, the officials subsequently determined that it WAS a 3-pt field goal, but they would not have been able to correct it had the time to correct run out.....


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