Free Throw Question

[rgncjn]

A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. The try bounces off the rim and the try is unsuccessful. The ball bounces in the court a couple of times and then bounces out of bounds without any other player touching the ball (no time has run off the clock).

Does Team B get the ball since A1 last touched the ball while it was live when she attempted her second free throw? Or, does the fate rest on the AP arrow?

This happened in a Girls MS game last night. I said Team B's ball for the reason above. My partner thought the situation should go to the AP arrow. We decided to give the ball to Team B for my reasoning.

Did we make the right call?

[JRutledge]

Give the ball to team B where the ball went out of bounds. And yes it was a live ball when A1 was given the ball from the official. Not that it really matters in this case.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

AP arrow. Rule 6-4-3(e).

[Back In The Saddle]

The ball went out of bounds with no team control because of the try. AP. Weird.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

AP arrow. Rule 6-4-3(e).

What!? The rule states "and no ... infraction was involved."

In the play, there was an infraction -- an OOB violation.

Give the ball to B.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What!? The rule states "and no ... infraction was involved."

In the play, there was an infraction -- an OOB violation.

Give the ball to B.

I agree with Bob.

What ways are there for the ball to become dead without an infraction aside from an IW or the end of a quarter/period?

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

What ways are there for the ball to become dead without an infraction aside from an IW or the end of a quarter/period?

Goal.

Unsuccessful FT that is to be followed by another FT.

Ball lodges between ring and backboard or comes to rest on flange.

And, when a try or FT is in flight, a foul or whistle or end of quarter/period does not cause the ball to become dead.

(Cribbed from NCAA rules 6-5 and 6-6.)

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

AP arrow. Rule 6-4-3(e).

e. The ball becomes dead when neither team is in control and no goal, infraction nor end of a quarter/extra period is involved.

I believe the ball going OOB is the infraction here. Give ball to Team B

[Back In The Saddle]

"The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player." NFHS 7-2-1

The ball is awarded out of bounds for ... "A violation, as in 9-1 through 13." NFHS 7-4-1

"A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds." NFHS 9-3-1

B's ball. Much less weird.

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

AP arrow. Rule 6-4-3(e).

Originally Posted by Back in the Saddle

"The ball is caused to go out of bounds by the last player in bounds to touch it or be touched by it, unless the ball touches a player who is out of bounds prior to touching something out of bounds other than a player." NFHS 7-2-1

The ball is awarded out of bounds for ... "A violation, as in 9-1 through 13." NFHS 7-4-1

"A player shall not cause the ball to go out of bounds." NFHS 9-3-1

B's ball. Much less weird

Sooo... which one is it. I'm doing a double tonight and I just know this is going to happen now that I read it here. LOL

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Sooo... which one is it. I'm doing a double tonight and I just know this is going to happen now that I read it here. LOL

You decide based on the info here. There, unfortunately, is no grand-master of rules to tell us, otherwise this would be easy.

I believe it's an OOB violation, which is an infraction, therefore 6-4-3(e) wouldn't apply, and it's simple. You can decide if I'm right!

[Bearfanmike20]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

You decide based on the info here. There, unfortunately, is no grand-master of rules to tell us, otherwise this would be easy.

I believe it's an OOB violation, which is an infraction, therefore 6-4-3(e) wouldn't apply, and it's simple. You can decide if I'm right!

I would give the ball to B as a throw in from the spot it went out.

[FrankHtown]

Why isn't there team control?? The shooter is holding a live ball inbounds...sounds like team control to me...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

There, unfortunately, is no grand-master of rules to tell us, otherwise this would be easy.

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

Yeah, but I agree with all that, Mark!

My only point was that you will rarely ever get everyone to agree on anything on a message board, and nobody here gets "final say-so"...so, as a reader, you have to read everyone's posts, read and know the rules, then decide for yourself.

Regardless of how "easy" or "simple" the answer should be. I absolutely agree that this is an OOB violation on A, B's ball.