Free Throw Question

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by FrankHtown

Why isn't there team control?? The shooter is holding a live ball inbounds...sounds like team control to me...

After the ball is released?

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

Yeah, but I agree with all that, Mark!

My only point was that you will rarely ever get everyone to agree on anything on a message board, and nobody here gets "final say-so"...so, as a reader, you have to read everyone's posts, read and know the rules, then decide for yourself.

Regardless of how "easy" or "simple" the answer should be. I absolutely agree that this is an OOB violation on A, B's ball.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yeah, but I agree with all that, Mark!

My only point was that you will rarely ever get everyone to agree on anything on a message board, and nobody here gets "final say-so"...so, as a reader, you have to read everyone's posts, read and know the rules, then decide for yourself.

Regardless of how "easy" or "simple" the answer should be. I absolutely agree that this is an OOB violation on A, B's ball.

I'm still trying to pick my chin up off the floor from realizing that JR had one wrong

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20

Sooo... which one is it. I'm doing a double tonight and I just know this is going to happen now that I read it here. LOL

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

I'm still trying to pick my chin up off the floor from realizing that JR had one wrong

You don't get out much, do you?

There isn't anyone posting on this board that hasn't been wrong a few times.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You don't get out much, do you?

There isn't anyone posting on this board that hasn't been wrong a few times.

Ha ha, of course just the first time I have seen it!

You know I have to admit when I first came to this board, I thought you were a grumpy old SOB who had a huge attitude problem and always thought he was right and just loved making other people feel like s**t.....I have since come to realize that you are just a grumpy old SOB who IS right about 99% of the time and just has a very low tolerance for BS....and THAT I can respect...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by kbilla

....I have since come to realize that you are just a grumpy old SOB who IS right about 99% of the time and just has a very low tolerance for BS....and THAT I can respect...

99% might be high.....

Btw, apropos to nothing, one thing that I was taught many years ago by the guy who was my original mentor in football and basketball was that sometimes in rules discussions, it's not a bad idea at all to make a deliberately false statement if that statement fosters a healthy discussion. Of course, I'm not saying that I did that in this thread. That would be crappy way to try and get out of admitting that I was wrong.

I was wrong.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Of course, I'm not saying that I did that in this thread. That would be crappy way to try and get out of admitting that I was wrong.

I was wrong.

Crappy and classless. You are, therefore, a grumpy, BUT CLASSY, old SOB, who has a low tolerance for BS and is right about 98% of the time.

[rgncjn]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Speak for yourself, Grasshopper. Think of it this way. It's no different than if a shot hit the rim and went OOB untouched. In both cases, the ball was live when it was in the hands of the shooter, team control was lost when the shot (FT) was taken, the ball hit the rim and then went OOB. If it was a shot, you would give the ball to the defense for a spot throw in at the spot where the ball went OOB. Why wouldn't you do the same if the only difference is that is was an FT? All the other factors are the same, except that the clock wouldn't be running the entire time for the FT, but I don't see where that would make a difference in how you administer the penalty.

That was one of the examples I gave to my partner at the time. I am glad WE got the call right...

[jer166]

are we over thinking these things sometimes?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by jer166

are we over thinking these things sometimes?

Yes. But there is sometimes something to be gained in the process of overthinking.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by kbilla

Ha ha, of course just the first time I have seen it!

You know I have to admit when I first came to this board, I thought you were a grumpy old SOB who had a huge attitude problem and always thought he was right and just loved making other people feel like s**t.....I have since come to realize that you are just a grumpy old SOB who IS right about 99% of the time and just has a very low tolerance for BS....and THAT I can respect...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Yes. But there is sometimes something to be gained in the process of overthinking.

Sureasheck is.....as long as you end up with the correct answer after going through the process. We never stop learning through our mistakes imo.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Note that you're included in that "low tolerance" category.

[Nevadaref]

Allow me to clarify. I hope that no one takes my previous post as taking a shot at JR. I posted that little laughing gif because I found that post to be one of the funniest that I've read on the forum in five years. It struck me so because of the vast amount of truth that it seems to contain. JR is certainly an old guy who sometimes gets cranky. He rants. He namecalls. He posts strange pictures. He is also one of the best sources of information and counsel on this board. His advice is right a very high percentage of the time. When I post something and he disagrees with it, I am compelled to pause and give it extra thought. His experience simply must be respected, and there is no other poster who makes me question my thoughts more than JR. I truly believe that I am a better official today because of him and the main reason for that is that he tells it like it is. He doesn't sugarcoat his opinions or reponses. He gets right to the point. I don't always like what he has to say, but I always read it and consider it. That includes when he calls me overofficious. No doubt that there are times when I have been and perhaps all of us are or have been at some point in our development. By his calling my attention to these instances, I hope to improve and become more balanced.