The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 04:54pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Communication to get call straight

Last night, boys varsity, last minute of a close game. Visitors make a steal and wind up with a 2 on none. B1 lays it up and as ball is on the rim A1 comes flying in and smacks the board. (the classic we're gonna lose now but look how high I can jump thing) Partner was lead, kinda right beside the play, he whistles and emphatically signals basket good. I blew my whistle to get his attention and called a quick huddle. "What did you call?" "Goaltending." "He didn't touch the ball." "Ball had already hit the board." "If he didn't touch the ball, it can't be goaltending." Well, it's a tech, anyway." He shrugged. I thought, uh-oh, he thinks, goaltending, bucket good, technical, close enough. I said, "Technical is what it is, or nothing. It's your call." He went over and huddled with home coach. I saw him gesture in my direction, so I think a part of his explanation was "cuz he said so." Home coach yelled across at me, "Does the basket count?" I shook my head no. Visiting coach meanwhile had a pained expression,
"What....what is the deal?" Partner simply said, "Technical foul." Home coach added, "You're getting the best of the deal." The ironic thing is that I think both coaches were happier with the wrong call than the right call. It turned out to be a non-issue. B missed both t shots, then inbounded, got fouled, and made both.

My question is, when I told partner it can't be goaltending, if he had refused to change the call, there would have been nothing further for me to do, right?

I was already mentally practicing saying, with a straight face, "He called goaltending, coach."
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove

Last edited by just another ref; Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 10:20pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:11pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
My question is, when I told partner it can't be goaltending, if he had refused to change the call, there would have been nothing further for me to do, right?
Who is the Referee? If you are the Referee you could change the call or make the proper call if you are in that position. Otherwise all you can do give the proper information and if he does not change it there is not much you can do at the moment. This is one of the rare moments where being the Referee really matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
I was already mentally practicing saying, with a straight face, "He called goaltending, coach."
I do not know if I would say anything other than, "Ask the official when he comes in front of you."

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:12pm
PYRef
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??
Exactly why isn't this basket interference? Count the bucket and penalize the T.....
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:20pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??
Goaltending or Basket Interference has nothing to do slapping the backboard. You must touch the ball to have any GT. And you must touch the ball, net or rim while the ball is in the cylinder area in order to call BI at all. The backboard does not apply (unless the rules change at the NF or NCAA level). The only place this could be seen as a GT call that I am aware of is the NBA level.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,896
Slapping the backboard is never BI or goaltending - the only determination is whether the slapping of the backboard was intentional. If it was, T. If not, there is no call.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Goaltending or Basket Interference has nothing to do slapping the backboard. You must touch the ball to have any GT. And you must touch the ball, net or rim while the ball is in the cylinder area in order to call BI at all. The backboard does not apply (unless the rules change at the NF or NCAA level). The only place this could be seen as a GT call that I am aware of is the NBA level.

Peace
So if you jump up and don't slap, but push the backboard and cause it to shake and the ball falls out, you don't have basket interference? I am not saying I'm calling it for the act of slapping itself, but when you slap the backboard, generally it shakes, if the ball comes out how can you not call BI?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 600
Actually I'm not completely clear on the original post, did the ball come out or go through?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
So if you jump up and don't slap, but push the backboard and cause it to shake and the ball falls out, you don't have basket interference? I am not saying I'm calling it for the act of slapping itself, but when you slap the backboard, generally it shakes, if the ball comes out how can you not call BI?
You can not call BI because there is no provision in the rules for you to call BI.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:32pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
You can not call BI because there is no provision in the rules for you to call BI.
I don't have my rulebook with me, what does the BI provision say in regard to causing the basket to move? Again I am not talking about the act of slapping itself, agreed that is not BI.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 156
Post

If you were calling a game played under FIBA rules your partner would have been correct to call goal tending.

However, it sounds that you handled the situation correctly and got the play right. I hope you and your partner cracked open the book and went over what the correct application of the rule in your post game.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
I don't have my rulebook with me, what does the BI provision say in regard to causing the basket to move? Again I am not talking about the act of slapping itself, agreed that is not BI.
The only provision based on causing the basket to move is when a player pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position. There is a case play that indicates this also includes a ring that is still vibrating because of the original grabbing of the ring, but no provision for a vibrating ring due to slapping the backboard.

This is a very common misconception about BI - one that I used to have. In fact, I'm positive there was a thread about this sometime last year...
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018
The only provision based on causing the basket to move is when a player pulls down a movable ring so that it contacts the ball before the ring returns to its original position. There is a case play that indicates this also includes a ring that is still vibrating because of the original grabbing of the ring, but no provision for a vibrating ring due to slapping the backboard.

This is a very common misconception about BI - one that I used to have. In fact, I'm positive there was a thread about this sometime last year...
Wow this is definitely one that I have had forever as well...seems completely unfair, but thanks for the knowledge...
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:41pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbilla
Wow this is definitely one that I have had forever as well...seems completely unfair, but thanks for the knowledge...
Certainly - the other important thing to know is that if a player goes up to block a shot and in the process unintentionally slaps the board hard enough to cause the ring to vibrate and the shot to be missed, there is still no call at all.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 28, 2007, 05:41pm
Lighten up, Francis.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by PYRef
So you have a technical on A1 for slapping the backboard while the try is on the rim, but why wouldn't you count the basket??
For all the folks asking this question, I posted the following in another thread, but it may be helpful again:

Goaltending (all 5 must be true to be GT):

1. Must be a try.
2. Must be on the way down.
3. Must be completly outside the cylinder.
4. Must be completely above the rim.
5. Must have a chance to go in.

Basket Interference (if any 1 of these happen, it's BI):

1. Can't touch the ball if it's in the cylinder.
2. Can't touch the basket or ball if it's on or in the basket.
3. Can't touch the ball (even outside the cylinder) after reaching through the basket.
4. If rim is moved, it can't contact the ball before returning to its original position.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Again the media sets it straight! LMan Baseball 29 Wed Aug 30, 2006 03:27am
PU/BU Communication on balk call DTQ_Blue Baseball 3 Sat May 20, 2006 12:45pm
straight arm Texoma_LJ Football 4 Mon Jul 04, 2005 09:20am
Straight Up rainmaker Basketball 10 Wed Feb 02, 2005 06:02pm
Straight from the case book bigwes68 Baseball 12 Mon May 31, 2004 03:17am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:21am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1