T or let it ride?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Why would I get defensive when I get jumped on for something that I never said? Can't imagine...



Yes, there is the likelihood of making the situation worse. There is always that likelihood. "I heard you" and "I'll watch for it" and "That's enough" also have that likelihood.

In human communication, nothing lacks any possible confusion. THere's always a possibility of confusion. Sort of like how you didn't hear what I was saying about "Thank you" and I don't like being called crazy.

Too funny.

You described the exact way you use it. You use it in response to comments where thank you is never used in "normal" human communication. To equate the possibility of that being confused to the possible confusion of a reply that is direct and explicitly addresses the comment is beyond laughable.

So any inexperienced officials out there listen up:

Simple, direct and to the point is better than vague, confusing and in no way related to what is being said by the coach.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

His normal response is simply, "Thank you, coach." He actually says that over and over and over. I would estimate that he says it in response to about 95% of the complaints from coaches or players.

Well, just for the record, I don't use it anywhere near that often. I use it two or three times a week, with about 5 games per week.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Usually the person complaining realizes that he isn't going to get anything else out of him and so just stops complaining,

See, bz? I'm not the only one that finds this useful.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

but a couple of years ago one coach actually asked him, "Why do you keep saying that? I want a real answer!" His response was absolutely unbelievable!!!
He turned around and without missing a beat actually said, "Because they won't let me say, 'Shut the *#(& up, coach.' "

LOL!! Well, that's not my reason, but it's cute.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Too funny.

Funny? Okay, I'm glad you find some entertainment out of it, although that wasn't my intention.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You described the exact way you use it. You use it in response to comments where thank you is never used in "normal" human communication.

Really? You have some kind of monitor to keep track of all "normal" human communication?? I'd like to have one too!

Originally Posted by blindzebra

So any inexperienced officials out there listen up:

Simple, direct and to the point is better than vague, confusing and in no way related to what is being said by the coach.

And may I add to those inexperienced officials:

You have to decide for yourselves whether or not you want to believe that.

I have done about 200 games a year over the last three years or so from 6th grade girls rec up to the championship of a multi-state boys tournament with a couple of D1 bound players. I use "Thank you" two or three times a week, sometimes more or less, but that's about an average. I have never had any response except for the coach to stop complaining and start coaching again. Occasionally, when I say it a coach will wait until the next stoppage and then ask a more direct question, which I can then address with useful information.

I recommend that in a situation where a coach is complaining, you try it, if you think it won't be incendiary. Sometimes, it's useful instead of repeating "I hear you" over and over. Sometimes it's a way to acknowledge the coach when there's not time to give more. Use no sarcasm or irony. Look the coach in the eye if you can look away from the action.

If it doesn't work for you, don't do it again. I don't think this is a dangerous or useless thing to try. It's another trick in your bag that might help at some point.

[Mark Padgett]

Guys - listen to Juulie. She knows what she's talking about. She's the best girl official I've ever worked with.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Guys - listen to Juulie. She knows what she's talking about. She's the best girl official I've ever worked with.

I started to feel flattered when I read this, because I know some of the women officials you've worked with but then I realized... woman..girl..woman..girl...

... oh, well...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I started to feel flattered when I read this, because I know some of the women officials you've worked with but then I realized... woman..girl..woman..girl...

... oh, well...

You need to lower your standards when dealing with us Cretins, Juulie.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Funny? Okay, I'm glad you find some entertainment out of it, although that wasn't my intention.



Really? You have some kind of monitor to keep track of all "normal" human communication?? I'd like to have one too!



And may I add to those inexperienced officials:

You have to decide for yourselves whether or not you want to believe that.

I have done about 200 games a year over the last three years or so from 6th grade girls rec up to the championship of a multi-state boys tournament with a couple of D1 bound players. I use "Thank you" two or three times a week, sometimes more or less, but that's about an average. I have never had any response except for the coach to stop complaining and start coaching again. Occasionally, when I say it a coach will wait until the next stoppage and then ask a more direct question, which I can then address with useful information.

I recommend that in a situation where a coach is complaining, you try it, if you think it won't be incendiary. Sometimes, it's useful instead of repeating "I hear you" over and over. Sometimes it's a way to acknowledge the coach when there's not time to give more. Use no sarcasm or irony. Look the coach in the eye if you can look away from the action.

If it doesn't work for you, don't do it again. I don't think this is a dangerous or useless thing to try. It's another trick in your bag that might help at some point.

Get in a corner and out comes the resume.

Okay I have one too.

I do between 500 and 700 games a year ranging from youth to adults with current and former NBA players, tournament games where nearly every player on the floor is going to be playing D-1, and state semi and championship games, and this year I was asked to teach the new officials class.

So inexperienced officials by all means choose.

We learn to be better by our mistakes.

Go with thank you and do just that or listen to the advice that I and others gave you and use simple and direct words that make sense and handle problem coaches better.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I do between 500 and 700 games a year ranging from youth to adults with current and former NBA players, tournament games where nearly every player on the floor is going to be playing D-1, and state semi and championship games, and this year I was asked to teach the new officials class.

Yup, you're experienced. Sho' nuf.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

We learn to be better by our mistakes.

Go with "Thank you" and do just that or

listen to the advice that I and others gave you and use simple and direct words

You want to make this either/or. Well, that's for you to decide, I guess. I see these as possibilities, but there are a couple of other choices, as well. Such as...

Use "Thank you" when it is a simple and direct way to accomplish something constructive.

Use other phrases or actions (nodding) when they are appropriate.

Continue to evaluate each coach in each game to see how best you can help the game move forward in the best way.

Continue to listen to and watch other refs for other possible ways to handle coaches when they are expressing ideas and emotions.

Originally Posted by blindzebra

...that make sense and handle problem coaches better.

Actually, for handling problem coaches, there are a lot of different tricks and phrases. "Thank you" rarely works once a coach is a problem, but it can prevent a coach from becoming problematic.

[JRutledge]

There is no "one size fits all" kind of issue that is going to work all the time no matter what. The only thing I think that was done wrong for sure was the "sit down" comment. Saying "Thank you" can work some times. Sometimes pointing out that we have called fouls can work. And sometimes it will not work.

I have said this before that many ways that coaches respond to us is based on things we will never be able to change. Sometimes it is your size, your race, your gender, your experience and where you live and what HS you once went to. If a coach feels he has a point and he does not respect what you have to say, you can say almost anything and it is not going to automatically work.

Based on what this guy said to me I might have completely ignored him at that point. And if I said anything later to him I might have addressed his behavior and not his question. But that is me and that works for me often because unless a coach knows you from previous games, they are not going to listen to what I say even if what I said was right on.

Dealing with coaches is an art, not a science.

Peace

[Coltdoggs]

Thanks for all the responses everybody...

I've had a night to sleep on it and another 5 games today that were great and if given that same scenario I'd have handled it completely different...

[tomegun]

Rut, I agree with you when you say "one size will not fit all." But the reality is many officials do not have enough experience to know what to say to coaches. This being the case, I wouldn't suggest anything other than being direct and clear - this only applies to questions not comments. Is that so hard?
I know right off, "Thank you" will not work for me. I make every effort to only call things I have no problem explaining. I don't know where I am on the scale of smooth communicators, but I think I can answer a question concerning one of my calls. If a coach becomes a problem...I have something for that too.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Get in a corner and out comes the resume.

Okay I have one too.

I do between 500 and 700 games a year ranging from youth to adults with current and former NBA players, tournament games where nearly every player on the floor is going to be playing D-1, and state semi and championship games, and this year I was asked to teach the new officials class.

So inexperienced officials by all means choose.

We learn to be better by our mistakes.

Go with thank you and do just that or listen to the advice that I and others gave you and use simple and direct words that make sense and handle problem coaches better.

So are you actually saying that there is NEVER a time to say "Thank you" to a coach that is being a problem?? You can actually be that definitive about what someone else can use to defuse a tense situation?? Damn, you really are as good as your little resume makes you out to be...

Why not simply say "I don't use that because it doesn't work for me" and let it go at that...trying to tell inexperienced officials that it will never work is a little pompous, imo.

I used thanks on a coach this weekend and it worked just fine...coach says "Hey, 52 is getting pretty physical out there."
"OK, thanks coach."
"Oh, you're seeing it too? OK."

Sweet and to the point and everything worked out just fine and dandy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Rut, I agree with you when you say "one size will not fit all." But the reality is many officials do not have enough experience to know what to say to coaches. This being the case, I wouldn't suggest anything other than being direct and clear - this only applies to questions not comments. Is that so hard?

Of course they do not have the experience. That is why one size cannot fit all. Also even if you have two different officials with similar experiences and they have different personalities, I am sure the same words coming out of their mouths are not going to work equally with different coaches. This is why you have to work games, watch other officials to figure out your way. Sometimes you have to use some trial and error.

Originally Posted by tomegun

I know right off, "Thank you" will not work for me. I make every effort to only call things I have no problem explaining. I don't know where I am on the scale of smooth communicators, but I think I can answer a question concerning one of my calls. If a coach becomes a problem...I have something for that too.

Sometimes I do not even say a word and the look I give tells a story of what I want to get across. That does not always work, but it works well for me.

Peace

[tomegun]

Rocky, while that worked for you this weekend, wouldn't you say that answering comments - no matter the answer - could end the wrong way? It has been said many times, by some of the "big dogs", that silence cannot be quoted - answer questions and not comments.

Having said that, your example of using "Thank you" fit what the coach said. It isn't like the coach said, "How can the fouls be 8 to 3?" and you said, "Thank you." While I don't necessarily endorse answering comments, you use is understandable. Saying "Thank you" repeatedly, for questions that don't fit that as an answer, could quickly become an irritant. Without (hopefully) using any absolutes, would you agree?

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So are you actually saying that there is NEVER a time to say "Thank you" to a coach that is being a problem?? You can actually be that definitive about what someone else can use to defuse a tense situation?? Damn, you really are as good as your little resume makes you out to be...

Why not simply say "I don't use that because it doesn't work for me" and let it go at that...trying to tell inexperienced officials that it will never work is a little pompous, imo.

I used thanks on a coach this weekend and it worked just fine...coach says "Hey, 52 is getting pretty physical out there."
"OK, thanks coach."
"Oh, you're seeing it too? OK."

Sweet and to the point and everything worked out just fine and dandy.

And I thought debating Rainmaker was funny.

Try to keep up.

The thank you advice was given with a list of coaches comments she has used it on...none of which were ones where thank you would even remotely make sense.

Your case wasn't close to what she was saying. By qualifying the thanks with an okay, you went from chatter to an actual conversation...much different than the coach saying 52 is getting rough and you run by with, "Thank you." Which would lead to the coach saying, "Well are you going to watch for it? RM than says, "Thank you." Seething now the coach yells, "What are you talking about?" RM says, "Thank you.

Get the picture?

We all use thank you on the court...I say it when a player or coach gets a loose ball and gives it too me...you know when it's an appropriate thing to say.