Wrong way & Delay of Game

[Luv4Asian8]

Two questions on the study guide that I posed to the assocation, but haven't heard from yet.

#69 - A2, immediately following the opening tip-off, takes the ball to team A's backcourt (thinking that was the frontcourt and scores in team B's basket. The horn sounds immediately after the goal and the officials stop play. The officials then realize that team A scored in the wrong basket.
Answer: "B" - Award two points to team B. After stoppage of play the officials should ensure the teams are facing the correct direction and award team A a throw-in along the endline. 5-2-1, 7-5-7

Issue: Rule 4-5-4, p28: "If by mistake the officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored...shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction..." While yes, the ball when through team B's basket, 4-5-4 confused me with the other answer - two points to team A.


#100 - After a successful basket by B, B1 knocks the ball away so that team A cannot immediately make the ensuing throw-in. The official calls a T-foul as B1 has been warned earlier in the game for the same behavior. Which of the following are true in regard to the T-foul? A. Team T-Foui or B. Personal T on B1.
Answer: "A" - The foul is a team technical charged to Team B. 10-3-6a, Summary p.72

Issue: Although I agree with a team Tech per delay warning rule, Rule 10-3-6a is listed under "player" tech. Additionally, the foul is read exactly the same under 10-1-5b under "team" tech. Could the answer to this question be either/both A or B? This may have an implication as to whether B1 already has a personal technical foul and is disqualified, whereas if it were a team foul, B1 would still be eligible to play. (sorry about the "what-if")

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8

Two questions on the study guide that I posed to the assocation, but haven't heard from yet.

#69 - A2, immediately following the opening tip-off, takes the ball to team A's backcourt (thinking that was the frontcourt and scores in team B's basket. The horn sounds immediately after the goal and the officials stop play. The officials then realize that team A scored in the wrong basket.
Answer: "B" - Award two points to team B. After stoppage of play the officials should ensure the teams are facing the correct direction and award team A a throw-in along the endline. 5-2-1, 7-5-7

Issue: Rule 4-5-4, p28: "If by mistake the officials permit a team to go the wrong direction, when discovered all points scored...shall count as if each team had gone the proper direction. Play shall resume with each team going the proper direction..." While yes, the ball when through team B's basket, 4-5-4 confused me with the other answer - two points to team A.

I don't care for this ruling, but here it is.

JUMPERS FACING WRONG DIRECTION
5.2.1 SITUATION E: During the pregame practice period, the visiting team properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. A1 controls the tap by tapping the ball back to A2. A2, realizing that he/she had warmed up at the basket behind A1, dribbles to that basket and scores an uncontested basket. RULING: Score the basket for Team A. The officials should stop the game and emphasize to both teams the proper direction. The mistake is an official's error by allowing A1 and B1 to face the wrong direction; not a correctable error.

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8

#100 - After a successful basket by B, B1 knocks the ball away so that team A cannot immediately make the ensuing throw-in. The official calls a T-foul as B1 has been warned earlier in the game for the same behavior. Which of the following are true in regard to the T-foul? A. Team T-Foui or B. Personal T on B1.
Answer: "A" - The foul is a team technical charged to Team B. 10-3-6a, Summary p.72

Issue: Although I agree with a team Tech per delay warning rule, Rule 10-3-6a is listed under "player" tech. Additionally, the foul is read exactly the same under 10-1-5b under "team" tech. Could the answer to this question be either/both A or B? This may have an implication as to whether B1 already has a personal technical foul and is disqualified, whereas if it were a team foul, B1 would still be eligible to play. (sorry about the "what-if")

Thoughts?

Thanks!

This is a Team technical foul because there is a specific rule that says so. As you have noted that rule is 10-1-5b. The other rule 10-3-6a is to cover other situations in which a player delays the game in some manner, but which is not covered by a specific rule. For example, if a player knocks the ball out of the officials hands when the official is about to administer a throw-in to the opponent. That is the purpose of 10-3-6a.

PS Instead of saying "personal T" please write "player T." By NFHS terminology a foul is either personal or technical, but never both.

[Luv4Asian8]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't care for this ruling, but here it is.

JUMPERS FACING WRONG DIRECTION
5.2.1 SITUATION E: During the pregame practice period, the visiting team properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. A1 controls the tap by tapping the ball back to A2. A2, realizing that he/she had warmed up at the basket behind A1, dribbles to that basket and scores an uncontested basket. RULING: Score the basket for Team A. The officials should stop the game and emphasize to both teams the proper direction. The mistake is an official's error by allowing A1 and B1 to face the wrong direction; not a correctable error.

Thanks for prompt response. While I agree with you whole-heartedly, I think this might be a very slightly different situation. Outside the fact pattern is that the jumpers are facing the wrong direction. I still would like to score for team A per 4-5-4, but the answer key (which does have the possibility of being wrong) does not provide me with guidance on why it should be scored for team B.

And yes, I meant "player" tech. Excellent catch!

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't care for this ruling, but here it is.

JUMPERS FACING WRONG DIRECTION
5.2.1 SITUATION E: During the pregame practice period, the visiting team properly uses the east goal and the home team the west goal. The officials, by mistake, allow the jumpers to face the wrong direction to start the game. A1 controls the tap by tapping the ball back to A2. A2, realizing that he/she had warmed up at the basket behind A1, dribbles to that basket and scores an uncontested basket. RULING: Score the basket for Team A. The officials should stop the game and emphasize to both teams the proper direction. The mistake is an official's error by allowing A1 and B1 to face the wrong direction; not a correctable error.

The way I read the original post is that the jumpers were facing the correct direction, but the person who received the tap went the wrong way.

In this case, the only way you award a goal to A for scoring in B's basket is if the teams and officials all are going the "wrong way". In this case, it sounds as if the only confusion was A1 who scored. Edit: It doesn't sound as if the officials "permitted" it, rather A just went to the wrong basket.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Luv4Asian8

Thanks for prompt response. While I agree with you whole-heartedly, I think this might be a very slightly different situation. Outside the fact pattern is that the jumpers are facing the wrong direction. I still would like to score for team A per 4-5-4, but the answer key (which does have the possibility of being wrong) does not provide me with guidance on why it should be scored for team B.

And yes, I meant "player" tech. Excellent catch!

The ruling in this case depends on where the confusion is.

If everything is set up backwards as in the cited case (jumpers on wrong side, etc.), you count the points for the team that shot the ball...team A.

If the officials started the jumpers in the correct places (and indicate the correct directions) but some of the player(s) gets confused in spite of that, the points count for B. In either case, the official should blow the whistle to get it all straightend out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

The way I read the original post is that the jumpers were facing the correct direction, but the person who received the tap went the wrong way.

In this case, the only way you award a goal to A for scoring in B's basket is if the teams and officials all are going the "wrong way". In this case, it sounds as if the only confusion was A1 who scored. Edit: It doesn't sound as if the officials "permitted" it, rather A just went to the wrong basket.

I see what you are saying. It seems that I got confused by what was written under "Issue:" by L4A.

If indeed the jumpers were facing the proper direction to start the game, then the basket should be scored for Team B. This is play 4-5-2 in the Simplified and Illustrated.
"4-5-2 Number 4 is confused and dunks the ball in B's basket. The covering official stops play after the dunk and credits the two points to Team B. Team A will then be given the ball for a throw-in from anywhere outside the end line."

[jdw3018]

Yeah, what Camron said - much clearer than what I said.