Delay of Game

[IAUMP]

I am the coach of a 5th grade boys team. In our league the timeouts are 30 seconds and the time between quarters is about the same. There have been several situations where after a time out the horn will sound and I will send my team to the floor. The other team is still in their huddle and the Officials will instruct the coach to send his players to the floor. Most of the time the coach continues to keep them in the huddle for another 10-15 seconds. My understanding is that the Officials should warn the coach the first time and then call a T for delay of game anytime after the warning. Is this correct or am I missing something. BY the way we have the priviledge of using Varsity and low College Officials for our games.

I am asking this question so I have a better understanding of the rules (Not griping) and how Basketball Officials view this.

[Adam]

I'm assuming you have rule variations on this, but normally there are two horns on a timeout and quarter break. The first horn is a warning, the second horn is the one we go on.
If the coach has the players moving by the time the 2nd horn goes, I don't concern myself with it. If the coach holds his players for 15 seconds or so after the 2nd horn, we're looking at putting the ball on the floor (or handing it to the other team, whichever is appropriate.) It's not a T.

If your officials are used to higher levels, they're probably thinking more along the lines of 1 minute breaks. Is there a warning horn in the middle of the 30 second timeout?

Aside from that, they may not be all that interested in getting too anal about it in a 5th grade game.

[Mlancaster]

If your team is throwing the ball in, the official may hand your player the ball for throw-in, in which case you get an uncontested layup. After the basket, if the other team does not then throw the ball in after the 5-second count, then a "T" is assessed.......

If the other team was to throw the ball in, the official will place the ball on the floor and have a 5-second count.
After the 5-second violation occurs, the above scenario is in effect.

But, it is true that in a kids game, the refs may be a lot more lenient on this.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Usually in a little guys game, I go to the coach and remind him to honor the 1st horn because at the 2nd horn we play.

In a HS game, I grab the Captain and tell him the same.

I really don't want to resort to the Resumption Of Play Procedure, that's why I'll offer the reminder. If they can't get in line then do it once and watch how quick they break the huddle.

[IAUMP]

Guys,

Thanks for the information. However, now I have another question. What would be the best way to try to get this enforced? Should I speak to the Officials about it? If we are putting the ball in play do I send my player to the spot in hopes that the Ref gives them the ball? It is really frustrating when you are trying to teach the kids how to play the game and the other coaches want to take forever trying to teach plays in the huddle. After all, not that many 5th graders are going to remember what was said anyway.

[Adam]

If it's that important to you, here's what I suggest.
Let it happen a couple of times before you mention it to a ref. I really dislike it when a coach comes to me pregame and asks me to watch for something.
Approach the official during a timeout and ask him how long the timeouts are supposed to be. If you are correct, politely ask that he enforce it. Something like, "I'm doing my best to finish my timeouts on time, and he's getting extra time to coach his kids because of it." If he says no, take the extra time with your kids.

Alternatively, you could approach the game management (tournament director) about it and ask him to have the officials enforce it. You may want to feel him out to see if he thinks it's important enough to worry about.
You also might want to verify the lenghts of your timeouts.

I can't guarantee either of these will work, but I can guarantee a lot of other approaches won't work.

[Junker]

You can either talk to the person running the league and see if he can put emphasis on this when he talks to officials, or you can politely talk to the officials when it happens in a game. A third option is to keep your kids until the other team breaks and take advantage of the extra time to coach them.

[smoref]

Originally posted by Mlancaster
If your team is throwing the ball in, the official may hand your player the ball for throw-in, in which case you get an uncontested layup. After the basket, if the other team does not then throw the ball in after the 5-second count, then a "T" is assessed.......

If the other team was to throw the ball in, the official will place the ball on the floor and have a 5-second count.
After the 5-second violation occurs, the above scenario is in effect.

But, it is true that in a kids game, the refs may be a lot more lenient on this.

I beileve you are incorrect about a "T" if the team does not inbound the ball w/in the 5 sec. It would be the same if the team was trying to throw in the ball and team B was palying good defense and 5 sec expired. It would be a violation and team "B" would get the ball.

There is no reason to give a "T" if the ball is not inbounded with in the 5 sec allowed.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by smoref

I beileve you are incorrect about a "T" if the team does not inbound the ball w/in the 5 sec. It would be the same if the team was trying to throw in the ball and team B was palying good defense and 5 sec expired. It would be a violation and team "B" would get the ball.

There is no reason to give a "T" if the ball is not inbounded with in the 5 sec allowed.

There is a very good reason, and that is that the rule book requires it when the Resumption of Play Procedure is in effect. There is no judgment required. There is no option.

[Adam]

Originally posted by rainmaker

There is a very good reason, and that is that the rule book requires it when the Resumption of Play Procedure is in effect. There is no judgment required. There is no option.

Not the first time. Just a 5 second violation. The 2nd 5 second violation warrants the T here. I think it's safe to say that a 2nd violation would take some serious unsportsmanlike defiance.

[Gozer]

Originally posted by smoref

I beileve you are incorrect about a "T" if the team does not inbound the ball w/in the 5 sec. It would be the same if the team was trying to throw in the ball and team B was palying good defense and 5 sec expired. It would be a violation and team "B" would get the ball.

There is no reason to give a "T" if the ball is not inbounded with in the 5 sec allowed.

Once you give it to the opposing team for thowin in becauce of a 5 second violation, when the ball becomes live you have more than five players on the court or the coach... a T is warranted. Had it happen recnetly. Fallowed by a second T for him barking at my partner, some people dont know proper language ... Anyhow my two cents.

Kenny

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Not the first time. Just a 5 second violation. The 2nd 5 second violation warrants the T here. I think it's safe to say that a 2nd violation would take some serious unsportsmanlike defiance.

Under the RPP, if A was to receive the ball, and B wasn't ready, A gets the ball, makes their play, and assuming they eventually score, the ref is to leave the ball bouncing, count to 5 and then call a T. I know I'm right, 100%, but I can't give a reference since my books are about 5 miles away, put away where they belong (it's me that's out of place at the moment.) I'll find the reference this weekend -- if I remember.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Under the RPP, if A was to receive the ball, and B wasn't ready, A gets the ball, makes their play, and assuming they eventually score, the ref is to leave the ball bouncing, count to 5 and then call a T. I know I'm right, 100%, but I can't give a reference since my books are about 5 miles away, put away where they belong (it's me that's out of place at the moment.) I'll find the reference this weekend -- if I remember.

Sorry, Juulie, but Adam is right.

SECTION 5 THROW-IN, RESUMING PLAY
ART. 1 . . . After a time-out (as in 7-4-4) or the intermission between any quarter (as in 6-2-2), the resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay. The timer will sound the authorized warning signal and final signal. The admin-istering official will then sound the whistle to indicate play will resume. In each situation:

a. The ball shall be put in play if Team A is ready or it shall be placed on the floor.
b. The throw-in count shall begin and if a violation occurs, the procedure will be repeated for Team B
c. Following a violation by one team only, if that team continues to delay when authorized to make a throw-in, it is a technical foul.
d. Following a violation by both teams, any further delay by either team is a technical foul.

You were thinking of the situation in which Team A violates on the throw-in immediately following the time-out, then Team B is given the ball and scores, and now it is Team A's throw-in again and they still aren't in position. That is a T.
Casebook play 7.5.1 also gives some info on this.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Sorry, Juulie, but Adam is right.

SECTION 5 THROW-IN, RESUMING PLAY
ART. 1 . . . After a time-out (as in 7-4-4) or the intermission between any quarter (as in 6-2-2), the resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay. The timer will sound the authorized warning signal and final signal. The admin-istering official will then sound the whistle to indicate play will resume. In each situation:

a. The ball shall be put in play if Team A is ready or it shall be placed on the floor.
b. The throw-in count shall begin and if a violation occurs, the procedure will be repeated for Team B
c. Following a violation by one team only, if that team continues to delay when authorized to make a throw-in, it is a technical foul.
d. Following a violation by both teams, any further delay by either team is a technical foul.

You were thinking of the situation in which Team A violates on the throw-in immediately following the time-out, then Team B is given the ball and scores, and now it is Team A's throw-in again and they still aren't in position. That is a T.
Casebook play 7.5.1 also gives some info on this.

I don't think your cite is the same as the play above, and I think there's another case play that's more relevant, but as I said, I'm hampered by being committed to being away from my books for at least another 24 hours, so I can't fully discuss this at the moment. BUt I'm almost sure I'm right.

[Adam]

Juulie,
The cite above is the exact play we're talking about. If Team B is the guilty party, they get one 5 second violation before they get hit with a T. So, you'd have score for A, violation for B, score for A, and T on B.
I'll wait until you get home before I ask you to chase ducks.