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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Not true.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.
I'm not sure if your first statement is true. One of the conferences I work every year did a survey of coaches a few years ago. They said that the game was called too tight when they were on defense and the game was too rough when their team was on offense. Many coaches have a hard time keeping their bias out of their ratings.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Not true.
Maybe.
???????
Why not.... I'm not saying that a coach is qualified to say that your call is right or not.. but it your calling lets say... traveling.. if you call it the same every time.. that is consistency... now the coach may argue wheather its traveling or not, but what I want to know more than anything is if I consistently callled it the same every time. Most coaches I have talked to have said if you gonna call it that way... do it for the entire game. Its probably the biggest gripe I have heard.

So.. yes a coach can tell you if you are being consistent.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Not true.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.
A coach is looking at the game from a different perspective. I would take anything a coach says with a grain of salt. Just because they observe something does not mean they actually know what is good officiating or bad officiating.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Not true.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.
Oh really? Is a 8-2 foul count consistent or should Team A with 8 fouls stop reaching & move their feet??

Arrogance should not be confused with confidence.

Convey alot of what? That's travel... 3 seconds... where's the foul


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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:32am
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What board do you belong to here in the Commonwealth? I believe that Joyce S. of the VHSL would be displeased to hear that information coming from the leaders of any officials board in the state.
Today 11:18am
Keep in mind I didn't say they did. the facial expression is what got me thinking...
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:43am
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I guess I would have to ask why you would want the coach's opinion? What is the point...the majority of the time they will tell you that calls in their favor were good calls, calls against them were questionable. They would probably even make reference to some situation that happened 5 years ago when you did one of their games...and what if the coach says you did a great job? Do you pat yourself on the back? At least until the next time he sends you an evaluation and tells you how horrible you were that night...

As one of my mentors once told me (many moons ago) - if you believe them when they tell you you were good, you have to believe them when they tell you you were bad.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:54am
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to coaches you as good as the last call you made that was in their favor. I'm a 10 year vet and always believe that there is room for improvement. I found that when I started I really didn't have a mentor and all the bad habits I picked up I felt were ok. Till I went to my first camp and I felt like I knew nothing especially mechanics luckily it was early in my officiating career and was able to adjust. What an eye opener.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 12:17pm
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Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Not true.
Maybe.
???????
I would agree to SOME degree with Bearfanmike. I have a cousin who's the girls varsity coach at a local school, and I have done some freshman and reserve girls games for that school. He's usually watching the games (more or less to monitor progress by the players in his progress and to see if his assistants are doing their jobs), and there were times he's had some feedback for me, both positive and not-so-positive. He was able to discern whether I was being consistent, and if my attitude was bordering on arrogant or not. Usually, if I got the feeling he was sugar-coating something, I'd ask him bluntly to be blunt and he will be.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Why not.... I'm not saying that a coach is qualified to say that your call is right or not.. but it your calling lets say... traveling.. if you call it the same every time.. that is consistency... now the coach may argue wheather its traveling or not, but what I want to know more than anything is if I consistently callled it the same every time. Most coaches I have talked to have said if you gonna call it that way... do it for the entire game. Its probably the biggest gripe I have heard.

So.. yes a coach can tell you if you are being consistent.
I disagree that a coach's opinion of your consistency is going to be valid. Their opinion is colored by their bias. You call a charge on one end and a block on the other end, they consider that inconsistent even when it's not.

One game last year, I had a travel call on a three point shooter. Other end of the court, very next play, I had the other team execute a perfect jump stop prior to his 3-point shot and the coach was whining about consistency. They weren't the same thing, but they were close enough to look like it to a biased observer.

Again, I stand by my disagreement. Consistency is not where coaches ought to be rating officials.

Maybe, game management and approachability. Hustle. Maybe.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 01:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.



I would agree to SOME degree with Bearfanmike. I have a cousin who's the girls varsity coach at a local school, and I have done some freshman and reserve girls games for that school. He's usually watching the games (more or less to monitor progress by the players in his progress and to see if his assistants are doing their jobs), and there were times he's had some feedback for me, both positive and not-so-positive. He was able to discern whether I was being consistent, and if my attitude was bordering on arrogant or not. Usually, if I got the feeling he was sugar-coating something, I'd ask him bluntly to be blunt and he will be.
If you're talking about someone who has some reason to be partial towards you as well as the team, I'll go with it to some degree. In general, with coaches who aren't related to you, I don't think they're generally qualified to judge an official's consistency.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 01:44pm
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I think that Coaches can provide an impartial and objective critique ONLY when they are not involved withthe game being played. That is if they are watching a game from the sidelines and not actually coaching in it.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 01:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
Not true.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.
Cute.

I didn't happen to see you used the word "impartial" in there anywhere...but I'm sure a coach can tell me all sorts of stuff without being even slightly impartial.

Question is, does it have value to me?

Better question is why would I call or email him after the game to ask him if he thought I sucked.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 01:59pm
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Originally Posted by SmokeEater
I think that Coaches can provide an impartial and objective critique ONLY when they are not involved with the school and game being played. That is if they are watching a game from the sidelines and not actually coaching in it.
I disagree with that statement & here's why.
Last season I'm working a very competitive, inner-city, cross town rival JV game. With the varsity game to follow the atmosphere is pretty darn close to varsity level. The varsity coach is front row in the stands & giving me & my partner more hell than the JV coach whose game it actually was.

I don't want a V coach evaluating me while I'm doing his/her schools JV game either! Bias will creep into the eval as the school wants all levels to win.

Last edited by Ch1town; Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 02:03pm.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 02:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeEater
I think that Coaches can provide an impartial and objective critique ONLY when they are not involved withthe game being played. That is if they are watching a game from the sidelines and not actually coaching in it.
I'd take this a bit further to say it has to be game they have no interest in. A varsity coach watching his JV play, for example.
A JV coach watching his varsity, for example.
A boys coach watching the girls game, for example.
A coach watching a game that his kids are playing in, for example.
A coach watching a game his wife is coaching, for example.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 02:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town
I disagree with that statement & here's why.
Last season I'm working a very competitive, inner-city, cross town rival JV game. With the varsity game to follow the atmosphere is pretty darn close to varsity level. The varsity coach is front row in the stands & giving me & my partner more hell than the JV coach whose game it actually was.

I don't want a V coach evaluating me while I'm doing his/her schools JV game either! Bias will creep into the eval as the school wants all levels to win.
Did you have game management talk to him?
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