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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 14, 2007, 06:57pm
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personal communication with coaches

with the arbiter, it is easy to send emails to representatives of a school, the AD or whatever. What do you all think about sending an email to the AD requesting the opinion of a coach regarding the game you did recently. Would that compromise your position as an official. An example would be:

I was wondering if [name of coach] had any feedback for me. I have already critiqued myself and I know there were some things I should have done better but I would love to hear her perspective on areas where I can improve. She seems very professional in her approach. Anyway, she may feel uncomfortable saying anything, which is also fine. I will not take anything personal; I would not have asked if I did not want to hear the cold hard truth.

I hate not getting feedback from good coaches; their opinion is often very valuable. I have no idea whether anyone would respond to such an email. But it seems like it is worth a try. On the other hand it may be seen as self-promotion or a compromise of the distance between ref and coach.

Thoughts?
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2007, 08:14pm
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What makes you think that any coach or AD is qualified to evaluate you? Do you really think that they know the rules perfectly? Or that they know the mechanics you're supposed to be using? Do you think that they're watching you every minute out there instead of watching their own players as well as the other team? The only time a coach notices you is when you blow your whistle. At all other times, they have way too much to do than worry about what you're doing.

It's not a good idea at all imo. If you want positive feedback and a knowledgeable opinion, get it from your peers. And your peers are officials, not coaches or AD's.

What would you say if the coach or AD asked you to rate and evaluate his performance as a coach or AD? Do you honestly think that you are knowledgeable enough and qualified to do so? Do you watch them so that you know what they are doing during the game?

Fuggedaboutit.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 08:21pm.
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2007, 08:32pm
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I agree with the Dinoman...I'd get another official to observe your game or even your partner(s). I think you will get an unbiased opinion from a fellow official and they will give you constructive critizism. A winning coach may give you feedback that you want to hear but not really helping you and a losing coach may rip you a new one without just cause...

I'd go the route of another official...
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2007, 08:34pm
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Agree with JR.

You made some calls you're not happy with? Live with it, learn from it, move on.

Nothing good will come of you asking a coach to provide feedback on your performance.
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2007, 08:36pm
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There are just too many problems and too few benefits that could come from that type of communication, IMO. You don't need to explain anything to the coach, and you don't need any feedback from the coach...
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 09:17am
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I have asked for a coaches feedback only once in 27 years. He just so happened to have been my Coach in High school and 2 years in college. I was taught by this gentleman for a total of 8 years and have known him since I was 13 years old. He has taught my oldest son in High School. I was confident that he knew me and I was comfortable with what ever he told me would be unbiased and knowledgeable. That being said when I asked for the opinion I had been officiating for 22 years already and I ensured he was not coaching but observing a game for recruiting purposes.

The feedback I got was favorable and he did point out some quirks he thought may lead to questioning by coaches. It did help me to better understand the coaches perspective.

That was my experience I am sure others would be different.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 09:28am
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Coaches....

In our association we are rated by the coaches.

Personally I hate it.


Why?

Because if you have a problem with a coach are you going to get a good rating? No.

If you "T" up a coach he is going to give you a bad score for that game. The only way to get a good score if you hold the coach in your hands like a new born baby. JMO
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 09:36am
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I agree with most. A pet peeve of mine at the state level is that we are evaluated for the most part by AD's and coaches, few of which really have an idea what they are looking for. Find another official or a mentor to come watch you or find someone to hold a camera and go home for self evaluation. I'm not sure where you are in your career, but early on I talked to a couple of really good crews and they let me come work the JV game in a JV/V double header. I worked the JV game as they rotated in and out working with me. They had lots of good stuff to talk to me about in between games. Following that I watched the varsity game and asked a few questions at the half and following the game. Great way to learn.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 10:25am
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In Illinois it's to our advantage to be rated by Coaches.It seems that the more ratings that you have the better your percentile. Problem is most Coaches don't bother to do this. I do email both Coaches and ask them to rate the crew. Are they qualified to rate us? Probably not in terms of mechanics or applying rules but if you're not working hard and are unapproachable that they can evaluate.

I've yet to do it in basketball but I have emailed Baseball Coaches case plays when they disagree with me on how I applied a rule. I didn't want them to think I didn't know what I was doing. I've never asked them "how did I do". Frankly they will think what they think. I just do my best.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:04am
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My association holds the coaches opinion in very high regard. To the point if you do "T" him/her up they request that you don't do their games. That puts us officials in a bad position and i know it is in the back of my mind when a coach gets to a point where they diserve a T and I'm hesitatnt to give it out.

I spoke out at our last meeting last week about bench decorum and the assignor and commissioner both looked at me like you better not follow that rule. Keep in mind they didn't say it but the look made it very clear. tough to do your job unless you have everyone calling from the same sheet of rules.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REFVA
I spoke out at our last meeting last week about bench decorum and the assignor and commissioner both looked at me like you better not follow that rule.
Really? They told us the exact opposite out here. In fact, if we don't take care of business it will affect our post-season selection.

COLORADO HIGH SCHOOL ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION
BOY'S AND GIRL'S BASKETBALL BENCH DECORUM: STRENGTHENED ENFORCEMENT

For the 2007 - 08 season, CHSAA basketball has made a commitment to see substantial improvement in the enforcement of appropriate bench decorum. This commitment is a continued effort to promote and encourage positive sporting behavior among the CHSAA membership. This commitment is in cooperation with the CHSAA / IAABO Board 4 basketball officials.

Throughout the season, the following rules and guidelines shall direct officials and coaches in the administration of bench decorum:

Head coaches and other bench personnel who engage in the following unsporting actions, in or out of the coaching box, are in violation of the bench decorum rules and should be assessed, without, warning, a direct technical foul (Excerpted from the NF basketball rule book rule 10-4-1)

Disrespectfully addressing an official (i.e., questioning the integrity of an official, voicing displeasure about officiating through continuous verbal remarks).
Attempting to influence an official's decision (i.e., physically charging toward an official).
Using profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar, or obscene (i.e., directed toward an official, opponents, or anyone).
Disrespectfully addressing, baiting or taunting an opponent.
Objecting to an official's decision by rising from the bench or using gestures (i.e., excessively demonstrating by use of gestures or actions that indicate displeasure with officiating).
Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.
Entering the playing court unless done with permission of an official to attend to an injured player.

The rule (10-5-1) states that the head coach shall remain in his/her team's coaching box. A head coach is outside the coaching box when he or she is clearly and completely outside of the prescribed coaching box.

By rule, a head coach may legally leave the coaching box during play only under the following conditions: to confer with personnel at scorer's table to request a timeout for a correctable error as in rule 2-10, or to prevent or rectify a timing or scoring mistake or alternating possession mistake.

However, if a head coach is found to be outside the coaching box appropriately communicating with officials, coaching his/her team, engaged in miscellaneous legal activity or minor conduct infractions a single warning shall be issued. Subsequent infractions will result in a direct technical foul.

The head coach is responsible for the conduct and behavior of all bench personnel (all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to; substitutes, coaches, manager(s) and statisticians(s).

NOTE: Game officials will be responsible to enforce the aforementioned guidelines throughout the season; consistency in doing so will affect post season CHSAA selection and assignments.

CHSAA 11/10/07 CH/TR
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:18am
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We just talked about that last night at the meeting. "Early and often" was the quote.

Our assigner is a football coach, and he said the best thing that happened last fall was a renewed emphasis on sportsmanship; even when it was his knuckleheads getting flagged for 15 yards.

The only caveat we were given was to not say anything stupid in the process.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REFVA
My association holds the coaches opinion in very high regard. To the point if you do "T" him/her up they request that you don't do their games. That puts us officials in a bad position and i know it is in the back of my mind when a coach gets to a point where they diserve a T and I'm hesitatnt to give it out.

I spoke out at our last meeting last week about bench decorum and the assignor and commissioner both looked at me like you better not follow that rule. Keep in mind they didn't say it but the look made it very clear. tough to do your job unless you have everyone calling from the same sheet of rules.
What board do you belong to here in the Commonwealth? I believe that Joyce S. of the VHSL would be displeased to hear that information coming from the leaders of any officials board in the state.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Agree with JR.

You made some calls you're not happy with? Live with it, learn from it, move on.

Nothing good will come of you asking a coach to provide feedback on your performance.

Not true.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2007, 11:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfanmike20
.... a coach can tell you if you are calling consistent game or not. A coach can see if you have an arrogant attitude... coaches can convey alot from their posistion.
Not true.
Maybe.
???????
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