Administrative Technical

[Chess Ref]

Fed rules. It's a Jr high game.We have the opening tip. Home team gets it and promptly throws it out of bounds. As players are lining up for throw in we have the horn... One of visitors is not in book. So we shoot 2 free throws, and have the home team throw it in from the division line.

Did we handle this correctly ?

Also is there a time limit on when we can call this ? Say the scorer doesn't say anything till there are 2 seconds left in a tie game, should we still call it at that point ?

[Jurassic Referee]

It sounds like you had 'er right. Team technical foul. Penalized when it occurs. Rule 10-1-2(b).

You call it when it's discovered and the scorer has to add the name/number to the score sheet. Iow, yes, at any time during the game.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Fed rules. It's a Jr high game.We have the opening tip. Home team gets it and promptly throws it out of bounds. As players are lining up for throw in we have the horn... One of visitors is not in book. So we shoot 2 free throws, and have the home team throw it in from the division line.

Did we handle this correctly ?

Also is there a time limit on when we can call this ? Say the scorer doesn't say anything till there are 2 seconds left in a tie game, should we still call it at that point ?

Interesting. Seems to be a violation of both 10-1-2 a and b.

a. Change a designated starter unless necessitated as in 3-2-2a.

This is only penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live to start the game, so you couldn't penalize for that.

However, b. Add a name to the team member list.

This is penalized when it occurs. I believe you would be correct then in penalizing with a T at that point, since the scorer is at that point going to have to add the name to the team member list.

And, if it happened with 2 seconds left in the game, then you would still penalize it as the scorer then has to add the team member to the book. But how that wouldn't be recognized until then seems impossible, as the scorer would have to mark the 5 starters for each quarter, so either then or when the player subs he would have to be in the book.

[Junker]

Yes, you did it right. It is unfortunate that it wasn't found earlier, but maybe the coach will be more careful next time. Gotta love JH ball!!

[tmp44]

I know it was only a JH game, but it could have been avoided had the book been checked prior to tip....

[Coltdoggs]

On a related note...at a hoops facility that I ref games at...They have a house league and it's teams that are usually made up of some AAU kids and kids that play on their school teams....Pretty competitive but for all intense purposes...it's a summer/rec league.

8th grade game...very tight game in the 3rd Q..we have a foul on B15...as my partner reports it the scorer notifies him that it's his 5th foul? We inform the coach and he questions the number of fouls....said there was no way that #15 could have fouled out.....Well....Turns out they had two kids on the team with the same number jersey and different colored shorts...

Partner and I discussed with both coaches and what the penalty should be....Team A Coach was cool about it and actually offered up that we charge 3 fouls to the kid in the game and 2 on the kid on the bench. We grabbed some masking tape and made one of them #18 for the balance of the game.

Worked out well for everyone although it was not by the book....It's summer/rec ball after all...and I agree with what tmp44 just posted...That's on me and my partner even at this level...

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tmp44

I know it was only a JH game, but it could have been avoided had the book been checked prior to tip....

Do you match every number on the floor to the book? What if the player was in the locker room at the time?

You can reduce the chances of error, but you can't always avoid it. Heck, we had one in a JuCo game last week.

[Y2Koach]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

....Pretty competitive but for all intense purposes...it's a summer/rec league ...

So the purpose of this summer/rec league is to work on their intensity?

[Nevadaref]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmp44
I know it was only a JH game, but it could have been avoided had the book been checked prior to tip....

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Do you match every number on the floor to the book? What if the player was in the locker room at the time?

You can reduce the chances of error, but you can't always avoid it. Heck, we had one in a JuCo game last week.

Bob, one doesn't need to do a one-to-one matching to catch the mistake in this case. The kid started the game! So he has to be marked as one of the five starters in the book. If the R looks to see that five starters are marked, then he might catch this one. Of course, if some other kid was marked as a starter, then one is still out of luck.

Chessref, the kid for the visitors who wasn't in the book was a starter and on the floor, right? If he was still on the bench, then I'm sure that you know thaht there is no T unless he plays.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Do you match every number on the floor to the book? What if the player was in the locker room at the time?

How about a count of players in the book vs. a count of players on the court during warmups. If there's a discrepency, ask the coach where the missing player is or tell him/her to add a player to the book.

[Adam]

If you're missing a player in the book, and there's a player in the locker room, you won't catch it.

Or, if the coach swaps out scrubs every other game and forgot to update his book....

There won't always be a discrepancy.

[tmp44]

I didn't mean that the problem will be corrected every time you count the players .. Snaq makes a good point about the player being in the locker room. However, and I'm guilty of it as well, if a "scorebook" technical has to be called, don't be surprised if it falls on us if the book wasn't checked and it COULD (as I stated in my first post) have been prevented.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

And, if it happened with 2 seconds left in the game, then you would still penalize it as the scorer then has to add the team member to the book. But how that wouldn't be recognized until then seems impossible, as the scorer would have to mark the 5 starters for each quarter, so either then or when the player subs he would have to be in the book.

I consider myself very lucky if I get the visitor's starters prior to start of a MS A or B game (I have better luck at CYO games). Most of the times, I end up recording opposing starters based on who walks on the floor for the opening jump ball.

[Ref in PA]

Especially early in the season, when I am the R, I will take the book to each coach and have them visually inspect it. The likelihood of book errors is much greater early in the season. By having the HC look at the book, it makes calling the T (if necessary) a lot easier. I will go to the table a little early in these cases just in case any change is needed.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Fed rules. It's a Jr high game.We have the opening tip. Home team gets it and promptly throws it out of bounds. As players are lining up for throw in we have the horn... One of visitors is not in book. So we shoot 2 free throws, and have the home team throw it in from the division line.

Just curious, since you had infractions by both teams, which way did you set the arrow?