back pick, give a step, does anyone call this today

[boiseball]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Screening is a comtinual POE.

If the player can see the screen there is no step requirement

yes, but if the player is moving there is a time and distance requirement, so you can still call a foul for setting the screen too close to the moving player

so ask yourself can he really see the screen. If it is truly from behind and the screened player cannot see the screen, if they dont get a step and it is not called, you put the defense at a severe disadvantage. Many times on a screen outside the field of vision, the defense "feels" it and goes around it... On a true back pick, how many screened players actually step back into the screen... You will see the good players know the screen is ther and actually roll a round the screen.

all good comments; I guess the idea is that the severe disadvantage is that the player does not have the space to keep from hitting the screener and getting hung up on the screen, so we look to see if the player had enough space to get around or were they somehow put at a big disadvantage by the player being too close; guess I will have to watch for it a couple times this year and try and get a feel for when I might need to call something

The real disadvantage is where the screened player rolls one way and the tries to cut off the player again... that is the foul I see the most, call, the most and hear the "but comon ref its just a pick and roll" the most

that play is one of the toughest plays for me to referee; where a player sets the ball pick and then just as the defender tries to slide under the pick, the screener acts like they are rolling to the basket and therefore takes the smaller defender with him, forcing the switch where the defender was only intending to go under the screen; it is devastating to the defense but hard to call because a smart screener never looks at the defender or purposely grabs him, instead he just rolls to the basket

I would love tips on how to call that play

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by boiseball

that play is one of the toughest plays for me to referee; where a player sets the ball pick and then just as the defender tries to slide under the pick, the screener acts like they are rolling to the basket and therefore takes the smaller defender with him, forcing the switch where the defender was only intending to go under the screen; it is devastating to the defense but hard to call because a smart screener never looks at the defender or purposely grabs him, instead he just rolls to the basket

I would love tips on how to call that play

Tweet. You can tell if the defender is switching or trying to go under. If they going under and the "roller" is moving into their path, call the foul (if there is contact and an advantage).

You can, in some cases, be slow on that whistle to see what develops....if the offense doesn't benefit from the situation (the dribbler doesn't go anywhere or make the pass to the roller) and the screened player still gets around the screen and continues to defend the dribbler, you might be able to pass on it.

[Nevadaref]

If you aren't enforcing the screening rules correctly, then you are contributing to the rough play that the NFHS is striving to reduce.
Can you provide a reason why one shouldn't penalize an illegal back screen that failed to allow the opponent one step backwards prior to contact?

PS The NFHS considers the visual field of a player to be anything to his front or sides, only behind him is not part of it. It says so right there in the rules:

4-40-3 . . . When screening a stationary opponent from the front or side (within the visual field), the screener may be anywhere short of contact.

NOTE: the red text is NEW. It was not in the 2006-07 rules book. Yet another unannounced editorial change!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If you aren't enforcing the screening rules correctly, then you are contributing to the rough play that the NFHS is striving to reduce.
Can you provide a reason why one shouldn't penalize an illegal back screen that failed to allow the opponent one step backwards prior to contact?

Yes, I can. If the contact is not rough and the screen generated no advantage, it doesn't need to be called. It can be, but a no call is also viable.

[JRutledge]

Yes I have called it. I will call it again. But I do not call it just because there is (minor) contact. The contact has to be illegal. That means displacement not just simply running into someone and stopping. A lot of screens that are illegal the person being screened sees the screen and stops. Calling the play that way all by itself is not a foul from my point of view. This is why in my opinion you do not see many fouls on back screens. Also many are allowed a step when I see them attempted.

Peace

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Yes, I can. If the contact is not rough and the screen generated no advantage, it doesn't need to be called. It can be, but a no call is also viable.

I agree with you Cam....and I also agree it can be a difficult call on the screen and roll....Generally speaking I'm watching the D but on the screens, it's the O....I'm watching for how the "roller" comes off and how/if the contact that is there is created by him against the new defender who has switched...If it's minimal, with no real advantage gained (this is where watching the play through is helpful)...I will pass on it....

If that "roller" creates a lot of contact and gets the pass, then yes, I would be apt to call an illegal screen.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by boiseball

a player sets the ball pick and then just as the defender tries to slide under the pick, the screener acts like they are rolling to the basket and therefore takes the smaller defender with him, forcing the switch where the defender was only intending to go under the screen

At one of the first camps I went to, a camper made this call twice on the same guy within about 5 minutes of game time. The observer (a D1 ref) told him that was "a good college play" and should not be a foul. A second observer (a college assignor) came over to tell the camper, "Great call".

So you're not alone in wanting tips on how to call the play. However, in high school, at least, I feel pretty safe in saying that the play is should usually be called a foul.

[Scooby]

I Agree that this must be called, and it is a hard call. But you must be consistent with it.

[tomegun]

My opinion of screening and other off-ball calls is this: many officials talk about it, but few make the calls. I can only speak for Southern Nevada, the whole DC area and Mississippi, but this is what I've observed in the past.

Meetings are very lively with rules debates about everything, including screening. Then, the ball goes up and all that goes out the window. I don't think the officials I've come in contact with realize how little time a shooter needs to get off a good shot. It takes a very little amount of contact by the screener to free up a shooter. I see plays all the time where an official does not call an illegal screen where there is minimal contact, but still contact.
One of my good friends always gets pumped up when his first call is an illegal screen. For him that is setting the right tone for the game. It has worked for him too - after doing 4 or 5 years in the Pac-10 he is in Korea officiating their pro league.

I would encourage every official to know and understand the rules concerning screening, but most importantly know how to apply the rules and have the courage to do so.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by tomegun

My opinion of screening and other off-ball calls is this: many officials talk about it, but few make the calls. I can only speak for Southern Nevada, the whole DC area and Mississippi, but this is what I've observed in the past.

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Agreed. A group of us had a conversation about screening at a preseason clinic just last weekend and the blind screen from behind was talked about in great detail. We all agree that it is a huge advantage for the offensive team and we all admitted that we did a poor job of calling it. My high school crew is going to discuss that play in our pregame for sure in the early games of the season.

[boiseball]

does this mean I am now a legitimate member of the board, after I finally had a post that generated some discussion?

anyway, thanks for all the comments

definitely going to be a topic of discussion for my pregame;

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by boiseball

does this mean I am now a legitimate member of the board, after I finally had a post that generated some discussion?

anyway, thanks for all the comments

definitely going to be a topic of discussion for my pregame;

Uh... yeah.