Is this a T?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

2) A1 passes the ball to A2 who is behind the endline, after he passes the ball to A2 he steps inbounds. A2 sets the ball down on the floor behind the endline and steps inbounds. A3 then steps out-of-bounds, picks up the ball and passes the ball to A4 who is standing out-of-bounds. A3 released his pass to A4 before the five (5) second throw-in count expires.

Care to fix that?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Care to fix that?

I fixed it. See what happens when one becomes a bald old geezer. I can't wait for Mark, Jr. to pass his OhioHSAA basketball officiating class in December so that he can carry his "old man" on the court.

MTD, Sr.

[Jimgolf]

This might be the most obscure post I've seen. And then someone posts that the play actually occurred during a game they worked!

What's the distinction between control and possession? How can a player possess a ball and not control it? Can you have player control but not team control? <--- Rhetorical questions, please don't answer.

This is confusing because the rule book uses common everyday words but defines them more narrowly than the general populace usually does. It would be clearer to the average person if the rule book had it's own terminology for control and possession.

I guess that's why Rule 4 is the most important rule to master. You need to learn to speak and think in NFHS and forget English.

My instinctive take is that if the official is using ROP, then the ball on the floor has to be considered in possession of the team that's supposed to be throwing the ball in. Conversely, the ball placed on the floor by the player is part of a pass. I'll have to read the definitions on all of these to be sure.

Thanks for a thought provoking discussion. I've had an epiphany.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This is confusing because the rule book uses common everyday words but defines them more narrowly than the general populace usually does. It would be clearer to the average person if the rule book had it's own terminology for control and possession.

I guess that's why Rule 4 is the most important rule to master. You need to learn to speak and think in NFHS and forget English.

AMEN!!

[jer166]

But it helps one think and research the written rules and cases. In the end, even if there is no consensus, one will not be in the dark if such a situation occurs in real life.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

This might be the most obscure post I've seen. And then someone posts that the play actually occurred during a game they worked!

What's the distinction between control and possession? How can a player possess a ball and not control it? Can you have player control but not team control? <--- Rhetorical questions, please don't answer.

This is confusing because the rule book uses common everyday words but defines them more narrowly than the general populace usually does. It would be clearer to the average person if the rule book had it's own terminology for control and possession.

I guess that's why Rule 4 is the most important rule to master. You need to learn to speak and think in NFHS and forget English.

My instinctive take is that if the official is using ROP, then the ball on the floor has to be considered in possession of the team that's supposed to be throwing the ball in. Conversely, the ball placed on the floor by the player is part of a pass. I'll have to read the definitions on all of these to be sure.

Thanks for a thought provoking discussion. I've had an epiphany.

JimGolf:

Since this thread concerns itself with at game being played under NFHS Rules, all of my rule references will be NFHS. Rule 4 defines player control and team control. One will not find a definition for possession. The definitions of player and team control require that the ball be live and have inbounds court status. The ball is live during a throw-in but does not have inbounds court status. The word possession has traditionally been used when the ball has been placed at the disposal of a team for a throw-in. One can then say that once the ball is at the disposal of a team for a throw-in the team has possession of the ball and if a player from that team is holding the ball the player has possession of the ball, hence there is Team Possession and Player Possession.

MTD, Sr.