Is this a T?

[blindzebra]

I'm leaning for a throw-in violation for failing to pass the ball directly onto the court.

7-5-7 a says: make a direct throw-in or pass the ball to a teammate OOB...putting the ball on the floor isn't passing and it isn't directly throwing the ball in.

[truerookie]

I vote for #2.

It's going to be a technical. R 10-3-11 since the official started the five second count. The ball is in possession of the team entitled to the throw-in BY Team B reaching through and touching the ball it will be a player technical. It meets the requirement for player technical.

[Nevadaref]

Wow, lots of different answers so far. BTW for those who care, let's say that this a boys HS varsity postseason game.

[Back In The Saddle]

#2.

10-3-11 Reach through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch or dislodge the ball as in 9-2 Penalty 3.

There is no requirement that the ball be in physical possession of an A player, but a definite prohibition against reaching through the plane and touching the ball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

#2.

10-3-11 Reach through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch or dislodge the ball as in 9-2 Penalty 3.

There is no requirement that the ball be in physical possession of an A player, but a definite prohibition against reaching through the plane and touching the ball.

Finally someone who grasped why I wrote the first post in this thread.
BITS, have you checked the wording of 9-2 Penalty 3? Do you wish to stand by your underlined statement?

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Finally someone who grasped why I wrote the first post in this thread.
BITS, have you checked the wording of 9-2 Penalty 3? Do you wish to stand by your underlined statement?

See Post #7

[BayStateRef]

This is a wonderful example of how complicated the rules are written. 10-3-11 should specifically read it is a technical foul to reach through the plane and touch or dislodge the ball "while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line."

The shorthand reference "as in 9-2 Penalty 3" says exactly that.

My ruling...no technical foul unless there is a previous warning for one of the four delays.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Finally someone who grasped why I wrote the first post in this thread.
BITS, have you checked the wording of 9-2 Penalty 3? Do you wish to stand by your underlined statement?

All I have here at work is the online rules, and I can't seem to find 9-2 Penalty 3. I'll look it up when I get home and let you know. However, as written, it is a little ambiguous whether "as in 9-2 Penalty 3" applies equally to both "touch" and "dislodge," or if it only applies to "dislodge." And not knowing what the penalty says, I have no context (yet) to help me decide that.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

All I have here at work is the online rules, and I can't seem to find 9-2 Penalty 3. I'll look it up when I get home and let you know. However, as written, it is a little ambiguous whether "as in 9-2 Penalty 3" applies equally to both "touch" and "dislodge," or if it only applies to "dislodge." And not knowing what the penalty says, I have no context (yet) to help me decide that.

"...and touches or dislodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line (as in 7-5-7), ...)

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

#2.

10-3-11 Reach through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch or dislodge the ball as in 9-2 Penalty 3.

There is no requirement that the ball be in physical possession of an A player, but a definite prohibition against reaching through the plane and touching the ball.

Actually, what NevadaRef is getting at is, 9-2 Penalty 3 does in fact say "...and touches or doslodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line..."

And so, the correct call is, a warning for delay for breaking the plane of the boundary. Of course, if the team has already previously received a delay of game warning for any of the delay warnings, this becomes a technical foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I vote for #2.

It's going to be a technical. R 10-3-11 since the official started the five second count. The ball is in possession of the team entitled to the throw-in BY Team B reaching through and touching the ball it will be a player technical. It meets the requirement for player technical.

What does this have to do with the words in 9-2 Penalty 3?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I'm leaning for a throw-in violation for failing to pass the ball directly onto the court.

7-5-7 a says: make a direct throw-in or pass the ball to a teammate OOB...putting the ball on the floor isn't passing and it isn't directly throwing the ball in.

BZ:

In MHO, I suggest that you RE-read NFHS R7-S5-A7 completely, especially the last sentence of the article, as well as the rule that defines when a throw-in ends before you call a throw-in violation on Team A.

MTD, Sr.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BZ:

In MHO, I suggest that you RE-read NFHS R7-S5-A7 completely, especially the last sentence of the article, as well as the rule that defines when a throw-in ends before you call a throw-in violation on Team A.

MTD, Sr.

I read it again and it still says team A may make a throw-in from anywhere along the end line and the thrower may make a direct throw-in...A1 didn't...or pass the ball to a teammate(s) outside the boundary...again A1 didn't.

The throw-in ending isn't germane to team A violating prior to the ball touching a player.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

I read it again and it still says team A may make a throw-in from anywhere along the end line and the thrower may make a direct throw-in...A1 didn't...or pass the ball to a teammate(s) outside the boundary...again A1 didn't.

The throw-in ending isn't germane to team A violating prior to the ball touching a player.

BZ:

When a throw-in, as in NFHS R7-S5-A7, is germane, more importantly, this is NOT a designated spot throw-in. NFHS R7-S6-A1 notes that NFHS R7-S5-A7 is an exception to only one player making the throw-in. NFHS R7-S5-A7 allows the following sceniaros:

1) All five (5) players from Team A are behind the endline. A1 passes the ball to A2, who passes the ball to A3, who passes the ball to A4, who passes the ball to A5, who passes the ball to A1 who then passes the ball to A3 who is standing inbounds. A1 released his pass to A3 before the five (5) second throw-in count expires.

2) A1 passes the ball to A2 who is behind the endline, after he passes the ball to A2 he steps inbounds. A2 sets the ball down on the floor behind the endline and steps inbounds. A3 then steps out-of-bounds, picks up the ball and passes the ball to A4 who is standing inbounds. A3 released his pass to A4 before the five (5) second throw-in count expires.

3) I could go on with more plays but I think you see my point, that this throw-in is not a designated throw-in and the rules allow the team who has the ball for the throw-in much latitude in making a legal throw-in.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

2) A1 passes the ball to A2 who is behind the endline, after he passes the ball to A2 he steps inbounds. A2 sets the ball down on the floor behind the endline and steps inbounds. A3 then steps out-of-bounds, picks up the ball and passes the ball to A4 who is standing out-of-bounds. A3 released his pass to A4 before the five (5) second throw-in count expires.

Care to fix that?