What dunks?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So if two varsity players were doing this prior to the jv game would you consider them team members and charge Ts?

Basedo n my previous post I would say no, unless the JV coach had their names on his roster.

Just run them off.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

You switching sides?

No just informing jer that there are no players before the game begins, so if we went by what he highlighted there would be no way to ever penalize anyone for a dunk during warmups. He is simply not correct to use the term players for this rule.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by PYRef

Could you hold over the T's to the Varsity game following JV??

When does the jurisdiction of the officials begin for the varsity game?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

When does the jurisdiction of the officials begin for the varsity game?

6:45 MST

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Fifteen minutes prior to the game two team members of team A dunk with both the coach and official as witnesses. When coach submits his squad list, he deliberately omits the names of the violators. Official assesses a technical foul for each act of dunking as team fouls and charges the coach with two indirect technical fouls. This ruling is correct.*

When the players dunked at the 15 minute mark, the calling official by rule was supposed to inform the players and their head coach that they each just got a "T". That's when you find out whether they were actually team members or not. If the coach says they are, give 'em 'T"s, If the coach says they aren't, run 'em off the floor.

And if they aren't "team members" before the game, they sureashell aren't gonna be team members during the game.

Just use the rules that you already have. No need at all to get into waiting until the squad list goes to the bench.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

Ref says "fine" and calls the technical foul. As he is administering the FTs, I start yelling at his partner asking "what the heck is that call???" etc, just carrying on. Partner comes over to the bench and tells me to calm down, and explains that according to the rules, dunking during warmups is a technical foul. I look over to my player seated on the bench and say "I told you! Now you owe your team 4 points"

Did they also tell you that you needed to have a seat?

[RushmoreRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

When the players dunked at the 15 minute mark, the calling official by was supposed to inform the players and their head coach that they each just got a "T". That's when you find out whether they were actually team members or not. If the coach says they are, give 'em 'T"s, If the coach says they aren't, run 'em off the floor.

And if they aren't "team members" before the game, they sureashell aren't gonna be team members during the game.

Just use the rules that you already have. No need at all to get into waiting until the squad list goes to the bench.

If it walks like a duck and if it talks like a duck.....I think you know where I'm going with this.

If they are participating in pregame, dressed like the rest of the team, in my book they are "team members". 2 indirect T's! No coaches box and if the coach leaves them off the roster, fine! And remember he's got two of the three DINGS already chalked up for the night.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RushmoreRef

If it walks like a duck and if it talks like a duck.....I think you know where I'm going with this.

If they are participating in pregame, dressed like the rest of the team, in my book they are "team members". 2 indirect T's! No coaches box and if the coach leaves them off the roster, fine! And remember he's got two of the three DINGS already chalked up for the night.

Well, being a trusting sort personally, I'm gonna take the head coach at his word. If he tells me that they're not on his team, far be it for me to tell him he's a lying douchebag.

Seriously, if the head coach does tell me that they're not part of his team, I'll go along with that. If there's any doubt at all, I'll give him the benefit of it. Suspicions do not necessarily equate to fact. I can guarantee you though that those individuals will not be sitting on the bench during the game, nor will they be trying to enter it either.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Seriously, if the head coach does tell me that they're not part of his team, I'll go along with that. If there's any doubt at all, I'll give him the benefit of it. Suspicions do not necessarily equate to fact. I can guarantee you though that those individuals will not be sitting on the bench during the game, nor will they be trying to enter it either.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Is there any justification for allowing him to leave them off the roster, then retroactively applying the Ts if he decided to add them later? And then tack on that unsporting T that was previously mentioned?

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Is there any justification for allowing him to leave them off the roster, then retroactively applying the Ts if he decided to add them later? And then tack on that unsporting T that was previously mentioned?

So....5 T's altogether, 2 direct to the coach, 2 indirect? That seems harsh. And I don't think there is a good justification for going that route. I do, however, think you could justify either retroactively applying the T's (with 2 indirects), or nailing the coach for 2 unsporting T's (both directs). Plus the team T for adding to the roster.

I'm thinking this is probably a 2-3 situation, and the R would decide which way to enforce it based on whether s/he wants to unload the coach over this.

Just my opinion.

[Adam]

I like informing the coach that he can add them now, but he won't be able to finish the game due to the two indirects and one direct.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Seriously, if the head coach does tell me that they're not part of his team, I'll go along with that. If there's any doubt at all, I'll give him the benefit of it. Suspicions do not necessarily equate to fact. I can guarantee you though that those individuals will not be sitting on the bench during the game, nor will they be trying to enter it either.

What rule do we use to forbid these guys sitting on the bench?
Also, 10-1-2-b states that they can be added to the team member list, at the price of a technical foul for each.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Is there any justification for allowing him to leave them off the roster, then retroactively applying the Ts if he decided to add them later? And then tack on that unsporting T that was previously mentioned?

Yep, 2-3. It is the right thing to do because the coach tried to cheat. There is no room in HS athletics for that. WHACK AWAY!

The coach gets a direct and two indirects and is gone. The two "team members" each get a player technical. The team gets a team tech for the administrative change to the scorebook. We shoot eight FTs.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What rule do we use to forbid these guys sitting on the bench?
Also, 10-1-2-b states that they can be added to the team member list, at the price of a technical foul for each.

1. The rule is the one that allows JR to inform the coach that if they sit on the bench for the game in uniform then they are going to be considered team members and penalized appropriately, but if they spend the game in the lockerroom or go change into street clothes and then have a seat they won't be considered team members. That's 2-3, baby.

2. The correct penalty for adding BOTH team members to the scorebook after the ten minute mark is a SINGLE team technical foul.