Tech on Coach situation

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup, and that's exactly why I e-mailed KSHSAA.

OK, would that be a local or long-distance e-mail?

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by mbyron

OK, would that be a local or long-distance e-mail?

LOL!!

Originally Posted by Splute

Blatant disregard of a rule by the player (dunking) and caught up in the moment of coaching (out of box 6"), play out differently in my mind.

Oh, I see. I'll look up "blatant" in the rules book.

The fellow asked if I ignore fouls. I said yes - good judgement requires that sometimes. He stated ignoring fouls does not relate to judgement. A blanket statement. I simply posed a scenario in which ignoring DOES equal judgement.

The reality is, a stupid dunk before a game gives no team an advantage - the rule is there to protect the equipment. It is minor. You address it by telling them not to dunk. The same goes with being 6 inches outside the box. Ok, what if he's 2 feet outside the box - is that "blatant disregard"? No.

Judgement.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yup. And we're questioning your judgment in not calling obvious dunks in a warmup. The consensus to date seems to be that your JUDGMENT is wrong.

Is that clear enough now?

No, you began by questioning my judgement in calling a coaching box infraction that my state has mandated is wrong? How presumptuous of you.

When I was a varsity coach, if you were at my varsity boys game and you called a T on my player with no warning and started the game that way, my AD and I would make sure you NEVER reffed another one of my games again.

Clear enough?

By the way, Francine's email address directly is [email protected]. I want to make sure your email gets to the right person. And I expect an apology when you get her answer.

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So the coach getting "caught up" is a good reason to totally disregard a rule?

I have no dog in this fight, but it has become stupid. If the pre-game dunk is obvious to everyone in the gym, including the opposing coach, you have no choice but to call it. But if it's a borderline dunk (he's up over the rim and dinks it in or he just gets a little of the rim while trying to look cool), and you can get to the kid to say, "Hey, don't make me make a decision on that", that's even better.

The coaching box is exactly the same. If the coach is 10' onto the floor and screaming at you, you have to T him up. But if he's 6 inches out of the box and coaching, and you can quietly say, "Coach, help me out and find your box", that's even better.

I know KSref said he "never sees" a pre-game dunk; but let's give him a little benefit of the doubt, for pete's sake. You think he's going to ignore a rim-shaking dunk when the opposing coach is staring at him and pointing at the basket? I don't. So why are we trying to beat each other up over something that happens once every other season?

Thank you.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Oh, I see. I'll look up "blatant" in the rules book.

The fellow asked if I ignore fouls. I said yes - good judgement requires that sometimes. He stated ignoring fouls does not relate to judgement. A blanket statement. I simply posed a scenario in which ignoring DOES equal judgement.

The reality is, a stupid dunk before a game gives no team an advantage - the rule is there to protect the equipment. It is minor. You address it by telling them not to dunk. The same goes with being 6 inches outside the box. Ok, what if he's 2 feet outside the box - is that "blatant disregard"? No.

Judgement.

I will say this again - ignoring any of those situations is NOT judgement. How you choose to deal with them is where the judgement comes in...telling a coach "Hey, I really need you to stay in your box for me" is dealing with it and using judgement - ignoring the coach is not...walking over to the coach during pre-game and telling him "Coach, #45 is going to get you a T if he dunks again" is dealing with it and showing judgement - ignoring it is not.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

When I was a varsity coach, if you were at my varsity boys game and you called a T on my player with no warning and started the game that way, my AD and I would make sure you NEVER reffed another one of my games again.

Clear enough?

Wow...and if I was an official in that area and had a Varsity coach and school AD that whined when a rule was enforced the way it was written, I would make sure I NEVER worked one of their games again - that way I wouldn't have to deal with that ignorance.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I will say this again - ignoring any of those situations is NOT judgement. How you choose to deal with them is where the judgement comes in...telling a coach "Hey, I really need you to stay in your box for me" is dealing with it and using judgement - ignoring the coach is not...walking over to the coach during pre-game and telling him "Coach, #45 is going to get you a T if he dunks again" is dealing with it and showing judgement - ignoring it is not.

Symantics.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Wow...and if I was an official in that area and had a Varsity coach and school AD that whined when a rule was enforced the way it was written, I would make sure I NEVER worked one of their games again - that way I wouldn't have to deal with that ignorance.

Great. We are in mutual bliss. I get a more diplomatic ref and you lose $150 per night x 20+ nights (because my varsity coaching buddies and I talk...).

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I will say this again - ignoring any of those situations is NOT judgement. How you choose to deal with them is where the judgement comes in...telling a coach "Hey, I really need you to stay in your box for me" is dealing with it and using judgement - ignoring the coach is not...walking over to the coach during pre-game and telling him "Coach, #45 is going to get you a T if he dunks again" is dealing with it and showing judgement - ignoring it is not.

I told you I "hear" it and address it. Even though I addressed it I have "set aside" the rule, which is a T. This equals IGNORING THE RULE and equals using judgement. They are not mutually exclusive attributes. duh.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

And I expect an apology when you get her answer.

You had to go and say it.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Hyperbole is my middle name. If you ever deleted all of my posts containing "hyperbole", I'd probably have about 12 to date.

Hyperbole is my life.

Well, that and Twinkies.......

Apologies to my friend Dave who lived in a cave...

There once was a man named Bill Knerberly
Who oft stretched the truth speaking verbally
He couldn't admit
He often flung sh1t
But when pressed he just called it hyperbole

[jer166]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

... The same goes with being 6 inches outside the box. Ok, what if he's 2 feet outside the box - is that "blatant disregard"? No.

Judgement.

What if he is only watching, or perhaps kneeling?

[Splute]

Originally Posted by KSRef07

Oh, I see. I'll look up "blatant" in the rules book.

The fellow asked if I ignore fouls. I said yes - good judgement requires that sometimes. He stated ignoring fouls does not relate to judgement. A blanket statement. I simply posed a scenario in which ignoring DOES equal judgement.

The reality is, a stupid dunk before a game gives no team an advantage - the rule is there to protect the equipment. It is minor. You address it by telling them not to dunk. The same goes with being 6 inches outside the box. Ok, what if he's 2 feet outside the box - is that "blatant disregard"? No.

Judgement.

I believe the rule is there to protect the player, the equipment and the school. IMO most rules are added to the book because Coaches will not or choose not to enforce them. This also includes tucking shirts, jewelry, etc. The coach may not want to offend his star player, so he puts it off on the officials to enforce by asking for it to be added to the rules... JMO.

Why not coach the players NOT to dunk during warmups? Discipline them if they do. Save it for practice or off campus.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

There once was a man named Bill Knerberly

Did he drive a Rolls Knardley? That's a car that rolls down one hill and can hardly get up the next.