Block Charge Question

[Bearfanmike20]

I believe it is a player control Charge.

I havn't looked at the rest of the replies yet.. I hope I'm right.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I have a block as well. I understand the defender is "a few steps away", but with a moving player who is catching the ball, the defender must give time and distance to that player and later in the sitch it says, "the post player catches, and immediately slams into the defender". The way I see this in my head (which I agree is a "I would have to see it" play) it is a blocking foul.

Give your head a shake.......

The rules(both NFHS and NCAA) say that no time or distance is required to gain a legal guarding position on a player with the ball. The only proviso is that you must establish LGP on an airborne player before they leave the feet. As you noted above, the player caught the ball before slamming into the defender. It can't be a block under the rules.

If the player hasn't caught the ball, time or distance is required. If they have caught the ball, no time or distance is required.

Basic concept.

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The rules(both NFHS and NCAA) say that no time or distance is required to gain a legal guarding position on a player with the ball. The only proviso is that you must establish LGP on an airborne player before they leave the feet. As you noted above, the player caught the ball before slamming into the defender. It can't be a block under the rules.

If the player hasn't caught the ball, time or distance is required. If they have caught the ball, no time or distance is required.

Basic concept.

If the catch and contact were simultaneous would you consider it a block then? I am trying to picture this happening and have to admit when I first read the Op I thought Block, Then as I read more posts I am thinking yea a charge fits but what if?

[btaylor64]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Give your head a shake.......

The rules(both NFHS and NCAA) say that no time or distance is required to gain a legal guarding position on a player with the ball. The only proviso is that you must establish LGP on an airborne player before they leave the feet. As you noted above, the player caught the ball before slamming into the defender. It can't be a block under the rules.

If the player hasn't caught the ball, time or distance is required. If they have caught the ball, no time or distance is required.

Basic concept.

So I have a question then:

If a post player is being fronted and a lob pass comes to him and he jumps to get it, and does indeed grab it while he is still in the air and tries to land and as he is landing he slams into the secondary defender, we have an offensive foul, per HS and college rule?

Or:

A2 is running down the floor looking for an outlet pass, and it is on its way. A1 throws the pass out in front of A2 to lead him. While he is looking the ball in, B1 sets up in front of A2 and right as A2 receives the pass, before he can turn his head around, we have a crash. You are saying this is an offensive foul as well per HS and college rule?

Not looking to argue, just wanting a good straight forward answer.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I have a block as well. I understand the defender is "a few steps away", but with a moving player who is catching the ball, the defender must give time and distance to that player and later in the sitch it says, "the post player catches, and immediately slams into the defender". The way I see this in my head (which I agree is a "I would have to see it" play) it is a blocking foul.

And that, folks, is a big part of why we catch so much grief....officials that don't understand the requirements LGP (make up their own criteria) and continue to call a block when it should be a charge.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And that, folks, is a big part of why we catch so much grief....officials that don't understand the requirements LGP (make up their own criteria) and continue to call a block when it should be a charge.

Amen!!!!!
I can't tell you how many instances that my fellow officials have replied "His feet weren't set" or "He was leaning backward" when I ask them about a call that was indisputably a charge on the offense. I am convinced the typical official in my area is making the correct call on this play less frequently than if they just flipped a coin. How difficult is it to gain full comprehension of Rule 4 section 23?

My pet peeves cheating the defense on block/charge and cheating the offense on continuous motion...due to incorrect or bogus rules interps and/or not being properly trained or studying the real rules

Later

Originally Posted by sseltser

A post player runs toward the basket for a pass from the guard. A defender steps into position and plants both feet right in the post player's path, a few steps away. The post player catches the ball and then immediately slams into the defender. What call should the lead official make?

IMO I'd go with the charge on this. As written, the defender was a few steps away. That is time and distance. The fact that he caught the ball and immediately slams into the defender is irrelevant.
If he didn't catch the ball, but still slammed into the defender what would you have? A charge.
Why penalize good defense if he achieved LGP per rule?