Speaking of visible counts...

[JugglingReferee]

mick's comment that in some games, visible counts start and last longer got me thinking.

How do you admin your visible counts?

I see some officials have a hand motion extended as soon as a player touches the ball. I wonder if they're counting "zero" in their head. If I know they're new, I have no problem asking them about it.

I've often wondered that myself when watching some counts. I guess depending on the level of the players, some officials make a slower count than normal. I always try to be consistent in my timing when giving a visible count for my own benefit and practice.
That said, I always have at least a full second elapsed before I have my arm extended.

[mick]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

mick's comment that in some games, visible counts start and last longer got me thinking.

How do you admin your visible counts?

I see some officials have a hand motion extended as soon as a player touches the ball. I wonder if they're counting "zero" in their head. If I know they're new, I have no problem asking them about it.

When the ball is secured by the thrower, I start my my arm.
When my arm is extended at shoulder height, I have One.

[Mark Padgett]

When the ball is first touched, I drop my arm in front of me, kind of like I'm starting a "beat", then I bring it up and then out for the "one" count. It's almost like I'm counting as "and one" to start.

It's hard to describe. To visualize it properly, you'd have to see me.

Of course, if you watch enough episodes of "America's Most Wanted", eventually you'll see one with me in it.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

When the ball is first touched, I drop my arm in front of me, kind of like I'm starting a "beat", then I bring it up and then out for the "one" count. It's almost like I'm counting as "and one" to start.

It's hard to describe. To visualize it properly, you'd have to see me.

Of course, if you watch enough episodes of "America's Most Wanted", eventually you'll see one with me in it.

Don't verbalize that when near one of the benches.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

When the ball is first touched, I drop my arm in front of me, kind of like I'm starting a "beat", ....

...Too easy....

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by mick

...Too easy....

I knew it would be. But sometimes, you just have to give back to the community.

[boiseball]

to quote dave hall, "be dumb like a fox." He instructed us, and it makes sense to me, to be slow in starting your five count; his philosophy is that the sooner you start the count, the sooner you will get to five and have to call a violation; he wants to avoid having to call that kind of stuff, so he tries to be slow about getting the count going; coaches are not going to notice that, they just pay attention once a couple seconds go by and they do not see a count;

anyway, those were his thoughts on the issue

[mick]

Originally Posted by boiseball

to quote dave hall, "be dumb like a fox." He instructed us, and it makes sense to me, to be slow in starting your five count; his philosophy is that the sooner you start the count, the sooner you will get to five and have to call a violation; he wants to avoid having to call that kind of stuff, so he tries to be slow about getting the count going; coaches are not going to notice that, they just pay attention once a couple seconds go by and they do not see a count;

anyway, those were his thoughts on the issue

That'd be good for an elementary tournament where the teams don't bust their butts trying to play intense defense.

Why punish the defense?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mick

That'd be good for an elementary tournament where the teams don't bust their butts trying to play intense defense.

Why punish the defense?

Jmo, but I think that the only firm rule on how to handle counts is that there is no firm rule. There's too many different situations and circumstances that you might encounter that may require the use of a little judgment and restraint at times.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Jmo, but I think that the only firm rule on how to handle counts is that there is no firm rule. There's too many different situations and circumstances that you might encounter that may require the use of a little judgment and restraint at times.

Well, that's fine, but to start the count late "to avoid having to call that kind of stuff" seems to show a total disregard for the rule.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by boiseball

to quote dave hall, "be dumb like a fox." He instructed us, and it makes sense to me, to be slow in starting your five count; his philosophy is that the sooner you start the count, the sooner you will get to five and have to call a violation; he wants to avoid having to call that kind of stuff, so he tries to be slow about getting the count going; coaches are not going to notice that, they just pay attention once a couple seconds go by and they do not see a count;

anyway, those were his thoughts on the issue

If a team is playing hard defense (as Mick points out) I know if I don't start my count I'll hear from the bench & the players on defense. So I always start my count right away.

[kbilla]

Originally Posted by mick

Well, that's fine, but to start the count late "to avoid having to call that kind of stuff" seems to show a total disregard for the rule.

Agree completely, it irritates me to no end when I see counts that are obviously slow...this is no different to me than not calling a travel when a guy takes an extra step, if a team is busting their a**es playing defense you owe it to them to give them an honest count....that being said no count will be perfect, but just like you should practice your jump ball toss, you should also practice your count imo.....I do it all the time in summer league games when I can watch the clock and compare to my count coming up the floor...

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by mick

Well, that's fine, but to start the count late "to avoid having to call that kind of stuff" seems to show a total disregard for the rule.

I agree. How about if we close our eyes every time a player drives to the hoop "to avoid having to call any fouls"? The rules are there for a reason. If you're going to ignore them, just stay home.

[JRutledge]

Guys, Mick was not saying literally to not ever call a violation. I think he is saying to give them a true count and take your time. I think it is better to be a little slow than to be very quick on this call.

For the record, I call 5 second calls all the time. So I have no problem making a call like this. But I want that call to be made without being in a hurry.

Peace