New interps Sitch # 10

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, well, I guess I see what they're saying. I just can't imagine trying to explain it to coaches. It's just too convoluted and complicated, and goes against what seems like the clear meaning of "last to touch". I really hope someone will knock some sense into the Rules Committee (like the V-8 ads!) and give us an interp we can use in the real world. Generally, I can see where their interps are coming from, and what the underlying principles are, but this is just too arcane. Makes the Infield Fly Rule look like a kindergarten game.

Coach: Why?

You: Coach, the ball needs to land in the BC before you touch it when the defense deflects it back there.

Coach: Oh, okay.

Doesn't sound so hard to explain to me.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Coach: Why?

You: Coach, the ball needs to land in the BC before you touch it when the defense deflects it back there.

Coach: Oh, okay.

Doesn't sound so hard to explain to me.

Well then you're dealing with some exceptional coaches. This is more like my experience.

Coach: What the....?? No way! Weren't you looking?? B clearly touched it. I can't believe you didn't seen that.

Me: Coach, the ball needs to land in the BC before you touch it when the defense deflects it back there.

Coach: Oh, for Pete's sake, this is high school ball. You can't seriously expect these kids to understand rules like that. I don't think that's even in there. You just really need to get with someone to explain it to you. No one else ever calls it that way [which btw is true!] and you're reading something in there that just isn't part of the rule.

Me: Coach, this is the approved interpretation which I know is correct. Others have to call what they see, but I know I'm right about this.

Coach: (looking at opposing coach) Have you ever heard of this before? I didn't think so. It's bizarre. Of all the weird, twisted interpretations... I'm gonna call your assignor and get this straightened out, you just don't get it.

Me: Thank you coach, now let's get back to the game.

Coach: mumble, mumble, mumble

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Well then you're dealing with some exceptional coaches. This is more like my experience.

Or even,

Coach: What!?!? B touched it! Didn't you see that??

Me: Coach, the ball needs to land in the BC before you touch it when the defense deflects it back there.

Coach: But B touched it! what's going on here? How can you call that?

Me: Coach, the ball didn't have BC status before your player touched it.

Coach: That's just mumbo-jumbo. You're trying to make an excuse because you weren't really looking. It's ridiculous. That was not a violation! I've studied the rules for years and you can't call that!! What's going on here?

Me: Coach, we're going on with the game now. Please remember your box.

Coach: Don't try to brush me off!! You can't even explain that call! It's just too awful for words! Why can't you even tell me what she did wrong?

Me: Coach, I've heard enough. Get back to the bench and your players.

Coach: You're terrible!! You have no clue!! Why isn't your partner bailing you out here?!?! You aren't even listening!!

Me: (thinking, 'Please don't make me do this') Whack!

[blindzebra]

Perhaps it's your delivery?

Sometimes it isn't what you say, it's how you say it...if it's matter of fact, this is gospel, take it to the bank, in your tone very rarely will you not get an oh, okay.

It's like on Seinfeld when George gives Jerry advise on beating a lie detector...it's not a lie if you believe it.

I find that if I present it with confidence it pretty much ends right there.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Or even,

Coach: What!?!? B touched it! Didn't you see that??

Me: Coach, the ball needs to land in the BC before you touch it when the defense deflects it back there.

Coach: But B touched it! what's going on here? How can you call that?

Me: Coach, the ball didn't have BC status before your player touched it.

Coach: That's just mumbo-jumbo. You're trying to make an excuse because you weren't really looking. It's ridiculous. That was not a violation! I've studied the rules for years and you can't call that!! What's going on here?

Me: Coach, we're going on with the game now. Please remember your box.

Coach: Don't try to brush me off!! You can't even explain that call! It's just too awful for words! Why can't you even tell me what she did wrong?

Me: Coach, I've heard enough. Get back to the bench and your players.

Coach: You're terrible!! You have no clue!! Why isn't your partner bailing you out here?!?! You aren't even listening!!

Me: (thinking, 'Please don't make me do this') Whack!

Or even....

Me: Coach, it's a violation. I'll explain why at the next time-out or between periods.

If he doesn't want to accept that, whack.

And when you do explain it, you explain it using a simple, one-sentence statement like BZ recommended above. You say it once and then walk away. Iow, you explain it; you don't debate it. If the coach doesn't understand your explanation, that's his/her fault, not yours.


Way too much unnecessary talking by yourself imo, Juulie. Debating instead of quickly explaining a call is a true game interrupter. And you're also taking way too much abuse during the unnecessary talking, also imo.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Or even,

Coach: What!?!? B touched it! Didn't you see that??

Me: Coach, the ball needs to land in the BC before you touch it when the defense deflects it back there.

Coach: But B touched it! what's going on here? How can you call that?

Me: Coach, the ball didn't have BC status before your player touched it.

Coach: That's just mumbo-jumbo. You're trying to make an excuse because you weren't really looking. It's ridiculous. That was not a violation! I've studied the rules for years and you can't call that!! What's going on here?

Me: Coach, we're going on with the game now. Please remember your box.

Coach: Don't try to brush me off!! You can't even explain that call! It's just too awful for words! Why can't you even tell me what she did wrong?

Me: Coach, I've heard enough. Get back to the bench and your players.

Coach: You're terrible!! You have no clue!! Why isn't your partner bailing you out here?!?! You aren't even listening!!

Me: (thinking, 'Please don't make me do this') Whack!

Exchanges like this just serve to cement my opinion that Oregon officials take WAAAAyyyy too much crap from the coaches.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Exchanges like this just serve to cement my opinion that Oregon officials take WAAAAyyyy too much crap from the coaches.

This is very true. I'm in the Portland Association and completely agree with you. I myself allow too much crap. But until the powers that be, and the upper echelon of refs, in our association practice better crap management themselves, it isn't likely to change anytime soon. I am guessing that Oregon is not the only place where too much crap gets taken.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is very true. I'm in the Portland Association and completely agree with you. I myself allow too much crap. But until the powers that be, and the upper echelon of refs, in our association practice better crap management themselves, it isn't likely to change anytime soon. I am guessing that Oregon is not the only place where too much crap gets taken.

And you're not alone.....

FWIW, I think this is a bad interp. In keeping with the theme, I sincerely hope someone will get their head out, wipe the crap out of their eyes and correct it.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is very true. I'm in the Portland Association and completely agree with you. I myself allow too much crap. But until the powers that be, and the upper echelon of refs, in our association practice better crap management themselves, it isn't likely to change anytime soon. I am guessing that Oregon is not the only place where too much crap gets taken.

I know you take way more crap than we do north of the river...pretty much every time I have officiated an Oregon team that has come across the river to play one of "our" schools, I have had to T someone on the coaching staff - and they always seem so surprised...One coach several years ago didn't like an oob call one of my partners made and stands and yells "That's Bullsh!t". After I whistle and whack him, he turns to me and says "What, don't you guys give warnings first over here?"

[Smitty]

It's a real drag that it is the way it is. But there's so much cronyism between our refs and the Varsity coaches (coaches get a vote in the state tourney selection process) that we tend to be a little gun shy to call the T. At the lower levels I don't see it being a problem as much. And if you do start calling a lot of bench Ts you get branded in a "humorous" but not so humorous way (see user Tlieb who is also from our association - guess what the T stands for). Until we get leadership that will back us up every time and be consistent throughout the whole association as far as evaluations and the process to move up in the association, I'm afraid not much will change.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I know you take way more crap than we do north of the river...pretty much every time I have officiated an Oregon team that has come across the river to play one of "our" schools, I have had to T someone on the coaching staff - and they always seem so surprised...One coach several years ago didn't like an oob call one of my partners made and stands and yells "That's Bullsh!t". After I whistle and whack him, he turns to me and says "What, don't you guys give warnings first over here?"

Sheez, dj, that guy is pulling the wool over your eyes. No one around here will put up with that, and we don't give warnings for it either.

The problem for me is to strike the balance between "management" and "putting up with too much" between "being T-happy" or thin-skinned and being reasonably firm. I just don't get that balance very well at all.

My problem with this rule isn't just explaining it, it's that it hasn't been called this way, has it Camron? It's certainly not how it's been explained to me. I guess I'll be trying too hard to explain because I sympathize with the coaches. Yech, I say.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

I know you take way more crap than we do north of the river...pretty much every time I have officiated an Oregon team that has come across the river to play one of "our" schools, I have had to T someone on the coaching staff - and they always seem so surprised...One coach several years ago didn't like an oob call one of my partners made and stands and yells "That's Bullsh!t". After I whistle and whack him, he turns to me and says "What, don't you guys give warnings first over here?"

And you believed him?