case 10.5.1 Sit C

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Y2Koach

I don't think its a black and white issue of coach at scorers table = bad.

It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, be they coach or official. The only thing that really matters in black and white is that coach at scorers table = technical foul.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, be they coach or official. The only thing that really matters in black and white is that coach at scorers table = technical foul.

I don't think Koach (or I) was commenting on the rule. He was addressing Bktballref's comment that seemed to say "coach at table = bad". I think (although I could easily be wrong) that Koach knows the rule at this point, and was merely disagreeing with the seemingly "black and white" judgment that it's always bad for the coach to be at the table.

Actually it is 10-4-4 under NCAA rules, and they allow a lot more leeway than the Fed.

NCAA 10-4-4d
A coach, team member or team attendant may leave the bench area at any time to point out a scoring or timing mistake, or to request a timeout to ascertain whether a correctable error needs to be rectified.


NCAA 10-4-4e
A coach or team attendant may leave the bench area to seek information from the official scorer or official timer during a timeout or an intermission.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I don't think Koach (or I) was commenting on the rule. He was addressing Bktballref's comment that seemed to say "coach at table = bad". I think (although I could easily be wrong) that Koach knows the rule at this point, and was merely disagreeing with the seemingly "black and white" judgment that it's always bad for the coach to be at the table.

Evidently the NFHS disagrees with both of you.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Evidently the NFHS disagrees with both of you.

That assumes a lot.

Maybe the NFHS just doesn't want to force officials to judge the intent of the coach in those situations.

By rule, I agree with you that the coach is never allowed at the table. But in the real world, it's simply not true that it's always bad when the coach goes to the table.

BTW, a Styx reference?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

By rule, I agree with you that the coach is never allowed at the table. But in the real world, it's simply not true that it's always bad when the coach goes to the table.

Oh, does that mean that it's good that officials are ignoring plainly written rules? Or is it good that coaches are ignoring plainly written rules? Is it good that a coach is forcing an official to make a decision as to whether or not he/she should let the coach skate from what is supposed to be a no-brainer "T"? If not one those, please point me to where I can find the good side of any situation where a coach is discovered being at the scorers table illegally?

Sorry, Skippy, but any situation where a coach puts us in a position where we have to decide whether to follow a plainly written rule or not is never a good situation. And I say that noting that there are situations where I would rather see a discrete warning used in lieu of a "T".

In the real world, if you're doing an NCAA game and the coach is illegally out of the their coaching box, that wouldn't always be bad either, I take it?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Oh, does that mean that it's good that officials are ignoring plainly written rules?

Where the heck did this question come from?!?! Who is talking about ignoring the rule? Certainly not me!! I never said that any official should ignore the rule.

What I disagree with is Bktballref's blanket statement (and gross overgeneralization) that:

nothing good can come from a copach going to the table. If it's not for a correctable error, then he's likely going to complain about soemthing.

I just think this is false. Should he be whacked? Yes, because that's what the rule says. But to say that "nothing good" can possibly come from the coach being at the table is false in the real world.

(That's what you get for trying to post intelligently at 1:02 am. You should've been watching the end of "Field of Dreams" on AMC instead.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I just think this is false. Should he be whacked? Yes, because that's what the rule says. But to say that "nothing good" can possibly come from the coach being at the table is false in the real world.

I iterate...again...as opposed to reiterating.....

What possible good can come out of a coach being at the scorers table illegally in the real world?

The only way that I'd watch Field of Dreams again is if the corn burnt down in the fourth inning, taking all of the old goobers and Kevin Costner with it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

By rule, I agree with you that the coach is never allowed at the table. But in the real world, it's simply not true that it's always bad when the coach goes to the table.

Where did I say "it's always bad when the coach goes to the table"?

I said, "Nothing good can come from a coach going to the table."

That doesn't mean someone is going to get killed.

Why should he need to go to the table for other than a correctable error? If he has an issue, he should approach an official or have a stat person or team manager go to the table.

The NFHS doesn't want coaches going to the table. That fact is very evident.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Where did I say "it's always bad when the coach goes to the table"?

I said, "Nothing good can come from a coach going to the table."

That doesn't mean someone is going to get killed.

Where did I say, "Someone's going to get killed"?

Why should he need to go to the table for other than a correctable error? If he has an issue, he should approach an official or have a stat person or team manager go to the table.

If the stat guy can go to the table, then why not let the coach?

The NFHS doesn't want coaches going to the table. That fact is very evident.

Agreed. I just don't think your original comment addresses WHY they don't (which is what the original poster was asking, after all).

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the stat guy can go to the table, then why not let the coach?


Agreed. I just don't think your original comment addresses WHY they don't (which is what the original poster was asking, after all).

There was a POE on this several years ago. Our state rep was on the rules committee that year. He stated that coaches were creating problems when going to the table. They were distracting the table crew during live ball play. Thye were getting angry at the table officials when they didn't like whatever the issue was. And that is why he told us the rule was in place.

If you don't agree with me that the NFHS doesn't want coaches at the table, then please tell me why the rule exists.