NFHS Mechanics Question

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Got a lot of spare time on your hands?? Why not take over for Bruce, instead of punishing the readers of this forum??

Actually, I spoke with Bruce last night and he said he is scheduling all your games with him or ABC.

Have fun.

HAHAHAHA - you know that if I was doing the scheduling, I'd rotate you, me and Jesse Liebman every Saturday. Now that would be fun. Maybe we can bribe Bruce to do that. I think he likes perfumed moustache wax.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well when you start accusing me of saying someone is being nefarious and starting defending yourself as if I was talking about you directly, I feel you need to calm down just a little.

Well, that explains it. You're wrong, but I understand now.
I said you were accusing them of nefarious motives, and was using myself as an example. Wasn't defending myself so much as providing an example of how your reason isn't the only valid one out there.

Originally Posted by Jrutledge

I just was making a point that if you cannot run a full court to do your job then maybe those officials need to cut back on what they are doing. Also officials are often characterized as "whores" because we will work several games in a day to get the biggest check for the day. As a matter of fact I hear many officials "brag" when they make over $100 in a day working some Men's league or some youth games. In some of those cases officials will work varsity or college games that very same day. And that is not about being the favorite of their assignor (in my case there is not one assignor for everything).

Yes, I know a few officials who will work 6 games on a Saturday (or more) just for the cash. I also know quite a few guys who look down on that just like you do (and I do.)

Originally Posted by Jrutledge

The amount of games you do in a day or a week is completely up to you. Not all of us are at the same level of fitness. For some officials working 3 days in a row might be a little much.

True enough.

Originally Posted by Jrutledge

I still think that way of thinking is lazy. It is no different than when officials say they do not want to rotate in a 3 person crew because they will have to run more. If you cannot do all parts of your job, you need to either not work the game or change the reason you have to "save your legs."

You'd rather they lie about it? Fact is, if I'm put into a position where I need to work more games than I'd prefer, I'm going to try to give all the kids as much effort as possible. If that means backing off on some mechanics to help pace myself so I can be effective in the last game, so be it. If not handing off a couple of timeouts is going to help me be able to keep focussed and hustle in the 4th quarter of the 5th or 6th game, well….

Originally Posted by Jrutledge

I think it is very fair. When the vast majority of officials that I come in contact with, have worked multiple games in a day because they were going to make an extra buck, I think it is very fair. BTW, that includes me and is the reason why I have changed even my philosophy on how many games I work and when. When I tell people I work 3 sports and their first impression is that I am gone every single night working games (which is what they do in there one sport) I think my impression is very fair. I do not know why you would be so offended. I am sure you know people that work every night and are chasing a buck. You can make a lot of money as an official.

Just because you have good solid example of dollar chasing refs does not mean every ref who works a string of games is doing it solely for the purpose of chasing that dollar. Just because we're getting paid for it doesn't mean it's the only reason we're doing it.

If my assigner tells me he's in a bind and needs me to stick around and work 4, 5, or 6 games, and my schedule permits it; I'm willing to help him out. First of all, I personally know he'd rather not have his refs do that many games, so if he's asking, he needs it and can't find anyone else.

Some are chasing the dollar and want to kill themselves every Saturday.
Some do what they can to avoid it, and won't even help out when needed.
Others will help out when needed, and trust their assigners to be honest about whether they're actually needed or not.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

I had an "R" tell me in a pregame a couple years ago it saves time and legs. Me being a younger man at the time, legs didn't need much saving. But I can see where he was coming from. IF the new trail is administering a throw-in after a made basket and the thrower calls time out piggybacking the TO to the center who happens to be on the table side doesn't hurt much. Plus, I think at one time this was allowed. I would have to defer to the elder statesmen of the forum for that.

If we are doing things just to "save our legs" then we need to not change something. Maybe not work as many meaningless games for money or not trying to work several games in a day. Or we could step away from the table and eat all those bad foods and exercise a little more.

The bottom line passing information leads to misinformation. And if you have ever been in a situation like I have where that information was not properly passed and a team uses the wrong timeout they wanted. That might create a bigger problem then trying to save a step or two.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If we are doing things just to "save our legs" then we need to not change something. Maybe not work as many meaningless games for money or not trying to work several games in a day. Or we could step away from the table and eat all those bad foods and exercise a little more.

The bottom line passing information leads to misinformation. And if you have ever been in a situation like I have where that information was not properly passed and a team uses the wrong timeout they wanted. That might create a bigger problem then trying to save a step or two.

Peace

Jeff, I can't speak for other guys, but when I have worked enough games that my legs needed saving, it wasn't for the money. I worked them because they needed someone and I was the only one available; or the originally scheduled ref had to bail.

Let's not impute nefarious motives on people for doing what may in reality have simply been a favor to an assigner.

As for mis-information. Let the official reporting it ask the coach which timeout he wants. If you're "piggybacking," give the coach a bit more leeway on timing.

Frankly, if you're piggybacking, you're not working anything above middle school (at that particular time), and you're likely to grant a little leniency on this issue anyway.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Jeff, I can't speak for other guys, but when I have worked enough games that my legs needed saving, it wasn't for the money. I worked them because they needed someone and I was the only one available; or the originally scheduled ref had to bail.

Let's not impute nefarious motives on people for doing what may in reality have simply been a favor to an assigner.

As for mis-information. Let the official reporting it ask the coach which timeout he wants. If you're "piggybacking," give the coach a bit more leeway on timing.

Frankly, if you're piggybacking, you're not working anything above middle school (at that particular time), and you're likely to grant a little leniency on this issue anyway.

Agree with Snaq here. I've been assigned games where I wasn't my best, but me at 80% is far better than only 1 official. And yes, these are usually for younger aged athletes.

I do recall some "piggybacking". I'm L and there is a TO request to me. The T, who just happens to be table side, sees the request as well. I let him take the request to the table. And yes, in these cases, we did many games in a single day - as many as 8.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Jeff, I can't speak for other guys, but when I have worked enough games that my legs needed saving, it wasn't for the money. I worked them because they needed someone and I was the only one available; or the originally scheduled ref had to bail.

Let's not impute nefarious motives on people for doing what may in reality have simply been a favor to an assigner.

Calm down for God's sake. I work 3 sports and I work much less than people that one sport. I know people in football and basketball that work 5 days a week with their jobs and their family obligations. During the baseball season once the spring is over, most of my baseball season is pretty much completely over, while other umpires work until October. I turn down games all the time even when I could work or I am technically available. Also being a favorite of your assignor does not mean you have to take every game they give you. If you work fewer games and stop trying to chase the every chance to make an extra 50 bucks, you might have fresher legs when it counts. BTW, I turn down games all the time when I am clearly available because I want to be fresh for the varsity and college games I already have scheduled. If you want to have fresh legs, those individuals might want to change their schedules and give other officials a chance to work games. You do not have to work them all.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Calm down for God's sake. I work 3 sports and I work much less than people that one sport. I know people in football and basketball that work 5 days a week with their jobs and their family obligations. During the baseball season once the spring is over, most of my baseball season is pretty much completely over, while other umpires work until October. I turn down games all the time even when I could work or I am technically available. Also being a favorite of your assignor does not mean you have to take every game they give you. If you work fewer games and stop trying to chase the every chance to make an extra 50 bucks, you might have fresher legs when it counts. BTW, I turn down games all the time when I am clearly available because I want to be fresh for the varsity and college games I already have scheduled. If you want to have fresh legs, those individuals might want to change their schedules and give other officials a chance to work games. You do not have to work them all.

Peace

Not sure what I said that makes you think I need to calm down. Just checked my pulse, and it's at resting level.

My only point is you only allowed for one reason to take more than 2 or 3 games. Personally, I make it a policy to limit to three a day. The extra money isn't worth it, and by game four I'm just not as into it. Since moving here, I haven't had to even worry about making an exception. There just isn't that much ball here compared to the number of officials.

When I was in Iowa, though, there were times I was, in my assigner's words, the only available option. It's not about being your assignor's favorite; it's about being a partner that's better than nothing, as the Juggler said. Sometimes it comes down to either one official, or two at 80%. I'll take two at 80% and cut them some slack for mechanics deviations.

Again, my point is simple; there are other reasons why officials might work more games than they're comfortable with than just to "chase every chance to make an extra 50 bucks." It's not a fair judgment to make.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not sure what I said that makes you think I need to calm down. Just checked my pulse, and it's at resting level.

Well when you start accusing me of saying someone is being nefarious and starting defending yourself as if I was talking about you directly, I feel you need to calm down just a little.

I just was making a point that if you cannot run a full court to do your job then maybe those officials need to cut back on what they are doing. Also officials are often characterized as "whores" because we will work several games in a day to get the biggest check for the day. As a matter of fact I hear many officials "brag" when they make over $100 in a day working some Men's league or some youth games. In some of those cases officials will work varsity or college games that very same day. And that is not about being the favorite of their assignor (in my case there is not one assignor for everything).

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My only point is you only allowed for one reason to take more than 2 or 3 games. Personally, I make it a policy to limit to three a day. The extra money isn't worth it, and by game four I'm just not as into it. Since moving here, I haven't had to even worry about making an exception. There just isn't that much ball here compared to the number of officials.

The amount of games you do in a day or a week is completely up to you. Not all of us are at the same level of fitness. For some officials working 3 days in a row might be a little much.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

When I was in Iowa, though, there were times I was, in my assigner's words, the only available option. It's not about being your assignor's favorite; it's about being a partner that's better than nothing, as the Juggler said. Sometimes it comes down to either one official, or two at 80%. I'll take two at 80% and cut them some slack for mechanics deviations.

I still think that way of thinking is lazy. It is no different than when officials say they do not want to rotate in a 3 person crew because they will have to run more. If you cannot do all parts of your job, you need to either not work the game or change the reason you have to "save your legs."

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Again, my point is simple; there are other reasons why officials might work more games than they're comfortable with than just to "chase every chance to make an extra 50 bucks." It's not a fair judgment to make.

I think it is very fair. When the vast majority of officials that I come in contact with, have worked multiple games in a day because they were going to make an extra buck, I think it is very fair. BTW, that includes me and is the reason why I have changed even my philosophy on how many games I work and when. When I tell people I work 3 sports and their first impression is that I am gone every single night working games (which is what they do in there one sport) I think my impression is very fair. I do not know why you would be so offended. I am sure you know people that work every night and are chasing a buck. You can make a lot of money as an official.

Peace