Double Foul During Free Throw

[truerookie]

WHat's not clear (to me) is what the POI is if it's during the try.[/QUOTE]

Bob, wouldn't we go to the arrow since there is no control when the ball in the air? no player or team control

[Adam]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Bob, wouldn't we go to the arrow since there is no control when the ball in the air? no player or team control

Only if the shot is missed. If the shot is made, POI is B's ball on the endline.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Bob, wouldn't we go to the arrow since there is no control when the ball in the air? no player or team control

Only if the shot is missed. If the shot is made, POI is B's ball on the endline.[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought. Thanks

[Back In The Saddle]

I disagree with the logic for keeping the free throw try alive. Rather than try to decide which rule has precedence, I think you apply both. The ball is not dead based on the foul by the defense; However, the ball is dead based on the foul by the offense before the try is released. Still alive + dead = dead.

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

Still alive + dead = dead.

Could the ball considered in a state of half-life then?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Vinski

Could the ball considered in a state of half-life then?

Now we have to bring carbon-dating into the equation? I'm not qualified for this stuff.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Now we have to bring carbon-dating into the equation? I'm not qualified for this stuff.

Yes, I've heard that most of your dates are not with carbon-based life forms.

Oh -- new case 4.19.8C provides an example of a double foul that does not cause the ball to become dead (even thought the "offensive" part of the double foul would normally cause the ball to become dead). It's not definitive to the OP, though.

[Vinski]

To calculate whether the ball will be considered “dead” or not, apply this simple formula…

t = [ ln (Nf/No) / (-0.693) ] x t1/2

where ln is the natural logarithm, Nf/No is the percent of carbon-14 in the ball compared to the amount in living tissue ( say JR?), and t1/2 is the half-life of carbon-14 (5,700 years).

If T is greater that 0, the ball is not dead.

Of course, you need to do this calculation fairly quickly and then blow the whistle accordingly or the coach might nag you for a late whistle.

[Nevadaref]

The above cited rule, this logical argument

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I disagree with the logic for keeping the free throw try alive. Rather than try to decide which rule has precedence, I think you apply both. The ball is not dead based on the foul by the defense; However, the ball is dead based on the foul by the offense before the try is released. Still alive + dead = dead.

and these two case plays convince me.

4.19.8 SITUATION D: A1 has possession of the ball and is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw situation when A4 and B4 are whistled for a double foul. RULING: A4 and B4 are charged with personal fouls and play shall resume from the point of interruption. A1 receives the ball to attempt the one-and-one free throw with the lane spaces properly occupied. (4-36-2b; 7-5-9)

6.7 SITUATION C: Under what circumstances does the ball remain live when a foul occurs just prior to the ball being in flight during a try or tap? RULING: The ball would ordinarily become dead at once, but it remains live if the foul is by the defense, and this foul occurs after A1 has started the try or tap for goal and time does not expire before the ball is in flight. The foul by the defense may be either personal or technical and the exception to the rule applies to field goal tries and taps and free-throw tries. (4-11; 4-41-1)

[Nevadaref]

Bob,
Perhaps this will satisfy the definitive phrasing that you seek.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

6.7 SITUATION C: Under what circumstances does the ball remain live when a foul occurs just prior to the ball being in flight during a try or tap? RULING: The ball would ordinarily become dead at once, but it remains live if the foul is by the defense, and this foul occurs after A1 has started the try or tap for goal and time does not expire before the ball is in flight. The foul by the defense may be either personal or technical and the exception to the rule applies to field goal tries and taps and free-throw tries. (4-11; 4-41-1)

1. circumstances is plural and the question therefore is set up to provide ALL of the circumstances in which the ball is to remain live, not just some of them. If something, such as a double foul, isn't listed in here, then the ball doesn't remain live.

2. The foul by the defense is singular as are all other references to a foul in this ruling. That is evidence that the intent of the rules makers is for continuous motion to only apply when there is a foul by the defensive team. Nothing else is included in this ruling.

Lastly if we understand the spirit and intent of the rule. It is to prevent the defense from fouling someone away from the ball everytime that the offensive team's best shooter gets the ball and is about to try for goal. That was deemed an unfair tactic, so the continuous motion rule was adopted to counteract this.