Question about double violation on free throw

[Damian]

Studying the rules and playing what if.

using the NFHS 2003-4 rule book.
Rule 9 under penalty #3.
If there is a simultaneous violation by each team , and no further free throws are to be administered, the ball becomes dead, no point can be scored ad play shall be resumed using alternate possession.

What if this is the first of two free throws and we have a simultaneous violation?

Do it over or penalize the shooting team?

[PAULK1]

Look in the officals manual para 263(01-03) it tells you how to handle the sit.

If it occurs durung the first of two or the first or second of three cancel the throw and award the other(s).

If it occurs on the last FT cancel the throw and and resume play with the AP.

[zebraman]

I've always thought it was unfair, but you only penalize the offense on a simultaneous violation on the first of two free throws. The first free throw is taken away and you are now shooting the second of two.

Z

[mick]

Originally posted by zebraman
I've always thought it was unfair, but you only penalize the offense on a simultaneous violation on the first of two free throws. The first free throw is taken away and you are now shooting the second of two.

Z

Regardless of perfectly fair/unfair, no one forces the offense to offend.

Penalizing both teams for this simultaneous violation is what we do when opponents simultaneously cause the ball to go out-of-bounds.

mick

[zebraman]

Mick,

First scenario - free throw violation: Both teams offend, only offense penalized. Seems unfair.

Your scenario. Both teams offend, we go to AP. Seems fair.

No I don't have a better way to handle it.. just not a lot of scenarios where both teams are equally guilty and only one team gets penalized.

Z

[mick]

Originally posted by zebraman
Mick,

First scenario - free throw violation: Both teams offend, only offense penalized. Seems unfair.

Your scenario. Both teams offend, we go to AP. Seems fair.

No I don't have a better way to handle it.. just not a lot of scenarios where both teams are equally guilty and only one team gets penalized.

Z

Z,
Yeah. Yer right, the defense is not penalized.

In fact, If I see opponents breaking the plane simultaneously (and they are generally in adjacent spots), I probably no-call it.
If they were both big violations, I guess I hafta penalize the offense.
mick

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman
First scenario - free throw violation: Both teams offend, only offense penalized. Seems unfair.

Your scenario. Both teams offend, we go to AP. Seems fair.

No I don't have a better way to handle it.. just not a lot of scenarios where both teams are equally guilty and only one team gets penalized.

I agree, it seems unfair. But how could you penalize the defense?

[Adam]

Penalize the defense? Blow the ball dead. Call the double violation, and start from the beginning with the first free throw. Both teams are equally penalized.

[mick]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Penalize the defense? Blow the ball dead. Call the double violation, and start from the beginning with the first free throw. Both teams are equally penalized.

With a simple do-over, "Both teams are equally penalized"
only if the first throw was successful:
Due to penalty on Off ---> Made FT is cancelled.
Due to penalty on Def ---> Offense shoots again.

But, with a simple do-over, if the first throw was missed:
Due to penalty on Off ---> Missed FT doesn't count.
Due to penalty on Def ---> Offense is allowed another chance.

Advantage ---> Offense

Actuarial tables show that the offense makes 60%, 50%, 40% of their free throws?
So, at 60% the offense is penalized more often, but at 40%, the defense is penalized less often....

Aaaargh! I saw that player first!

mick

[Adam]

Nah, be quick on the whistle, and the missed shot can be blamed on the whistle. It's all hypothetical anyway, since the rule says cancel the shot and move on.

[Kelvin green]

Be quick on whistle and blame missed shot on it???

Even in jest we should not be talkin about inadvertent whistles---

Quick whistles are the cause of too many problems in the game with advocating it---