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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:21am
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Second shot of two shot foul. A1 is at the free throw line and is bounced the ball to shoot it. While A1 is dribbling the ball, B1 comes on the lane line. Then A1 not only shoots an airball, but runs into the lane immediately after shooting it (realizing the shot was not going to go in). How is this situation supposed to be handled?
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:32am
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The case play that applies is 9.1.6 Situation A.

While A1 is attempting a final free throw, B1 in a marked lane space enters the lane too soon, then shooter A1 steps on the free-throw line while releasing the throw.

A double violation is called and the ball is put in play using the alternating-possession procedure.

COMMENT: Anytime the defense violates first, followed by a violation by the free-throw shooter, the officials should consider the possibility of disconcertion.

Z
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Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:20am
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What if this had been the first free throw of a two-shot foul? If there were a double violation on the first throw, I think what we do is cancel the first shot and then shoot the second. Assuming I'm correct about that (I'm not sure I am), doesn't that really only penalize the offensive team. Please advise. Thanks.
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Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:28am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Largent
What if this had been the first free throw of a two-shot foul? If there were a double violation on the first throw, I think what we do is cancel the first shot and then shoot the second. Assuming I'm correct about that (I'm not sure I am), doesn't that really only penalize the offensive team. Please advise. Thanks.
You're correct. First FT is cancelled. Second FT is still shot. Rule 9-1PENALTY3&4(b).

"Your's is not to wonder why. Your's is but to do or die".
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Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 10:32am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Largent
While A1 is dribbling the ball, B1 comes on the lane line.
Are you saying that B1 enters the 3pt arc and "comes on the lane line" or are you saying he steps on the lane line?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 10:51am
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Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Quote:
Originally posted by Largent
While A1 is dribbling the ball, B1 comes on the lane line.
Are you saying that B1 enters the 3pt arc and "comes on the lane line" or are you saying he steps on the lane line?
What difference does it make to the call?
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Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 11:09am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Quote:
Originally posted by Largent
While A1 is dribbling the ball, B1 comes on the lane line.
Are you saying that B1 enters the 3pt arc and "comes on the lane line" or are you saying he steps on the lane line?
What difference does it make to the call?
I thought the penalty was different if you are in a marked lane space or not when there is a double violation. Are you saying it's the same because there is a non-marked violation involved?

Okay let me see if I have it right.

B1 leaves marked space and then A1 leaves marked space - Violation on B1 ignore A1's violation.

B1 leaves marked space and then A1 violates non marked space (3pt arc or free throw shooter) - Double Violation shoot second or AP (Unless it's disconcerting to shooter)

B1 violates nonmarked space and then A1 violates nonmarked space - Double violation shoot second or AP

Is this correct?

[Edited by All_Heart on Jan 6th, 2006 at 11:21 AM]
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Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 11:16am
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Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
Quote:
Originally posted by Largent
While A1 is dribbling the ball, B1 comes on the lane line.
Are you saying that B1 enters the 3pt arc and "comes on the lane line" or are you saying he steps on the lane line?
What difference does it make to the call?
I thought the penalty was different if you are in a marked lane space or not when there is a double violation. Are you saying it's the same because there is a non-marked violation involved?

Okay let me see if I have it right.

A1 leaves marked space and then B1 leaves marked space - Violation on A1 ignore B1's violation.

A1 leaves marked space and then B1 violates non marked space (3pt arc or free throw shooter) - Double Violation shoot second or AP (Unless it's disconcerting to shooter)

A1 violates nonmarked space and then B1 violates nonmarked space - Double violation shoot second or AP

Is this correct?
If A1 or a teammate is the first to violate, the ball is dead immediately and the FT is cancelled-- in all instances. That's a completely different rule- and situation- than the one we've been discussing.

The discussion is about a member of the defending team - B- violating first. A B violation is always a delayed violation.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 11:20am
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
If A1 or a teammate is the first to violate, the ball is dead immediately and the FT is cancelled-- in all instances. That's a completely different rule- and situation- than the one we've been discussing.

The discussion is about a member of the defending team - B- violating first. A B violation is always a delayed violation.
Whoops, I meant to say that B1 was the first to violate in those examples. Good catch. I'll go back and edit them.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 11:30am
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Quote:
Originally posted by All_Heart
[/B]
1) B1 leaves marked space and then A1 leaves marked space - Violation on B1 ignore A1's violation.

2) B1 leaves marked space and then A1 violates non marked space (3pt arc or free throw shooter) - Double Violation shoot second or AP (Unless it's disconcerting to shooter)

3) B1 violates nonmarked space and then A1 violates nonmarked space - Double violation shoot second or AP

[/B][/QUOTE]1) Correct as per rule 9-1PENALTY4(a).

2) Correct as per rule 9-1PENALTY4(b).

3) Correct- same as #2.

You got 'er, mate. Obviously what we had before was a failure to communicate. That's why I said that there really was no difference to the final call re: what type of violation the B player committed.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 01:33pm
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Send a message via AIM to Jayzer
Original = Largent
Rule Book pg.55, 4b.
I don't know if this would help or not.
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J.J.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2006, 04:08pm
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Thanks for the rules reference.

Just to clarify the original post, B1 came from outside the 3 point arc while A1 had the ball at his disposal for the 2nd shot. Then, A1 shot it but before the ball touched the rim, A1 stepped into the key in an attempt to rebound the free throw (which ended up airballing).


Thanks for the posts. I really appreciate everyone's counsel. I think it is great that there are so many people that care about officiating as much as I do. Despite the many diverse opinions on this board, the game is better served by having the people who administer the rules always trying to improve themselves. JMO.
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