Delay Technical

[NewNCref]

Had an interesting question with a couple of different opinions at the association meeting tonight. Here's the sit:

A1 has the ball OOB for a throw-in. B1, reaches across the line, and fouls A1. Team B has already received their team delay warning.

So the question is, what do you have here? Team B has already received their warning, so technically, as soon as B reaches over the line, it should be a technical foul. I argue that at this point, the ball is dead, and the contact, unless flagrant, should be ignored. Others seemed to disagree. Any thoughts?

[JugglingReferee]

I believe this to be an intentional personal foul. I hope the fact that it's 3:14am isn't messing with my mind.

[Nevadaref]

Check the case book. The NFHS disagrees with you too.

THROW-IN FOULS
*10.3.11 SITUATION A: After a field goal, A1 has the ball out of bounds for a throw-in. Thrower A1 holds the ball: (a) B2 crosses the boundary line and fouls A1; or (b) B2 reaches through the out-of-bounds plane and touches the ball while in the hands of A1. RULING: It is an intentional personal foul in (a), and a technical foul in (b). In (a), such a contact foul with the thrower during a throw-in shall be considered intentional, or if it is violent, it should be ruled flagrant. COMMENT: Either act is a foul and it should be called whenever it occurs during a game without regard to time or score or whether the team had or had not been warned for a delay-of-game situation. If the player making the throw-in (A1) reaches through the out-of-bounds plane into the court and B1 then slaps the ball from the hand of A1, no violation has occurred. B1 has merely slapped a live ball from the
hands of A1. (4-19-3, 4; 9-2-11 Penalty 3, 4)

*10.3.11 SITUATION C: Team A scores near the end of the fourth quarter and is trailing by one point. B1 has the ball and is moving along the end line to make the throw-in. A2 steps out of bounds and fouls B1. Is the foul personal or technical? RULING: This is an intentional personal foul. The time remaining to be played or whether Team A had been previously warned for a delay-of-game situation is not a factor. If the team had not been warned, the foul constitutes the warning. (4-19-1; 9-2-11 Penalty 4)

[JRutledge]

You have an intentional foul with or without a delay. Rule 9-2-10 Penalty #4.

If the player just touches or dislodges the ball, then it is a technical foul. Rule 10-3-11.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by NewNCref

Had an interesting question with a couple of different opinions at the association meeting tonight. Here's the sit:

A1 has the ball OOB for a throw-in. B1, reaches across the line, and fouls A1. Team B has already received their team delay warning.

So the question is, what do you have here? Team B has already received their warning, so technically, as soon as B reaches over the line, it should be a technical foul. I argue that at this point, the ball is dead, and the contact, unless flagrant, should be ignored. Others seemed to disagree. Any thoughts?

You're overthinking it. If the "act" of reaching over the line also includes contact with the ball or the inbounder, call the more severe penalty. Only if the the act of reaching over does not include contat do you enforce the "breaking the plane" provisions. Do not pick nits about the timing and that the ball became dead instantaneously when the plane was broken.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You're overthinking it. If the "act" of reaching over the line also includes contact with the ball or the inbounder, call the more severe penalty. Only if the the act of reaching over does not include contat do you enforce the "breaking the plane" provisions. Do not pick nits about the timing and that the ball became dead instantaneously when the plane was broken.

Best advice to be given for a long, long time. I'm wondering if we could generalize this, make it into a philosophy, and teach it as an interpretive law. But then what would the mods have to moderate all day, except the spam and VI?

[Scrapper1]

New in this year's case book:

*10.3.11 SITUATION D: A1 is out of bonds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1's hands. Earlier in the game, Team B had received a team warning for delay. RULING: Even though Team B had already been issued a warning for team delay, when B1 breaks the plane and subsequently contacts the ball in the thrower's hand, it is considered all the same act and the end result is penalized. A player technical foul is assessed to B1; two free throws and a division line throw-in for Team A will follow. The previous warning for team delay still applies with any subsequent team delay resulting in a team technical foul. (4-47; 9-2-10 Penalty 3; 10-1-10)

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Best advice to be given for a long, long time. I'm wondering if we could generalize this, make it into a philosophy, and teach it as an interpretive law. But then what would the mods have to moderate all day, except the spam and VI?

But it would have to be a specific rule, not an interpretation, right? Remember, anything added to the case book is just someone's opinion, not the actual rule.

[NewNCref]

Thanks all! Here in NC, the state association hasn't sent out rulebooks/casebooks yet, so I don't have the new one. Nevertheless, I stand corrected!

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

But it would have to be a specific rule, not an interpretation, right? Remember, anything added to the case book is just someone's opinion, not the actual rule.

You misunderstand. If it's in the case book, it's just as binding as if it were in the rules. However, it's only authoritative if you happen to be the committee member who wrote it. For everybody else, it's just another opinion.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I believe this to be an intentional personal foul. I hope the fact that it's 3:14am isn't messing with my mind.

What are u doing up at 3:14am on this forum?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

What are u doing up at 3:14am on this forum?

Caught a cold, woke up in the middle of the night due to coughing. Nothing to do except surf the net. Sure as hell ain't watchin' the soft stuff on TV at that hour.