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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 21, 2002, 06:52pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScottParks
I agree with passing on this call for the most part. A few weeks ago, I had a coach in my ear saying "you gotta call something.... they're flopping all over the place and somebody's going to get hurt". We called a few blocks, but a true no contact flop was nuttin!

Any thoughts on what to say to a coach?
"coach, if they are not gonna stand there and take a charge and flop before it happens, and no contact occurs, i will swallow the whistle. but he displaces the shooter, the foul will be called," and plus not all contact is considered a foul, which no coach understands...
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 22, 2002, 02:20am
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Re: What If??

Quote:
Originally posted by Rev.Ref63
I had a situation recently where the defensive player obviously flopped and then the shooter came down and tripped over him. I held my whistle and got an ear full from the coach of the offensive player who wanted a foul on the player on the floor. What is the proper call in this sitch?
rev.,
i am about to stir the pot.
this is a situation that could be used as a game management tool. and could be approached several different ways.

1. if the defender obviously flopped and the shooter tripped over him, depending on the kind of game, i might call a trip on the defender. if the game is real messy and bad defense is prevelant during the game i would probly call a foul on the D. this would convey the message that "this is unacceptable."

2. on the other hand you could see the play and while the defender is still on the floor, give him a look, and say, "get up" and motion to him to get up at the same time. this will let him know that you see what happened and you will not call it for him.

3. contact is made, but the defender still throws some acting into the mix. this is where the play gets dicey. if the offensive player makes contact, the defensive player is in LGP and acts to draw attention, i have to look very closely to determine whether the offensive player actually invades the space of the defensive player. if the offensive player does invade the space of the def. and there was contact(though he does act) i will call a P.C. foul because he went through the D. (but there has to be contact)

there are other diff. ways to handle but at 1:30am i am done.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 26, 2002, 11:58pm
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I think it's a no call.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 30, 2002, 11:48pm
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I am jumping into the fray kind of late, but it is nice to see my name being thrown around.

First, flopping occurs under two different circumstances.

1) A1 has a legal position on the court. A1 sees B1 coming toward him/her and bails out as a natural reaction to impending contact by B1. It is the type of reaction that we of all do if we think we are going to get hit by someone who is moving without seeing us. It is assumed that because of the flop by A1 there is not any contact by B1 with A1. It is my opinion that this type of flop should not come under the technical foul provision of the rules for faking being fouled. If A1 bails out too early I tell the player to stand in there and take it like a man/woman and take the charge; of course. Remember, if A1 starts to bail out under this circumstance and contact does occur, then B1 is responsible for the contact because of A1's favorable position on the court.

2) A1 does not have a legal position on the court and attempts to draw a charging foul when their position on the court really lends itself to a blocking foul if there is contact between A1 and B1 (player with the ball). This is the great dilemma: Call a block or a techinal foul for faking being fouled.

I will be the first to admit that the technical foul is an obsure foul. How many times have we seen it or called it. I have never seen it called or called it myself. The first time A1 flops with no contact between A1 and B1, I tell A1 I do not want to see it again, because the actual penalty is a technical foul. If there is contact between A1 and B1, then it is easy, blocking foul on A1. If A1 knows that the penalty for flopping is a technical foul, that puts a stop to it right away.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 31, 2002, 12:21am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

...If there is contact between A1 and B1, then it is easy, blocking foul on A1. If A1 knows that the penalty for flopping is a technical foul, that puts a stop to it right away.
Block on A1? How do you figure that?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 31, 2002, 11:48am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

...If there is contact between A1 and B1, then it is easy, blocking foul on A1. If A1 knows that the penalty for flopping is a technical foul, that puts a stop to it right away.
Block on A1? How do you figure that?

That sentence was poorly worded. It has been my experience that A1 usually flops when he/she is in an unfavorable position and is trying to influence the official to call a charging foul on B1. The first time that A1 flops in the scenario that I just described and there in no contact, by rule that is a technical foul for faking being fouled, I discreetly let A1 know that his/her actions are a technical foul and to stop the nonsense. I think that everybody goes that route because it is an obscure techincal foul, very techincal is the best description I can give. But if there is contact, and A1 is not in a favorable position, then A1 is responsible for the contact, and the official should call a blocking foul on A1. I hope this cleared things up for you.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 31, 2002, 11:59am
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Mark,

I think that the A1???? came up since we normally think of the defense being the one flopping, and that Team B is normally on defense. However, in your original post, you did state that A1 was the player about to receive the contact.
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