<BIG><A HREF="http://www.officiating.com/index.cgi?category=basketball&page=gd_flop">The Great Debate: The Flop</A></BIG>

If you did call the flop, wouldn't you have to call it a technical foul? It is an unsporting technical foul for faking being fouled. I would be very very hesitant to call it a T. If I did so, I would have to call it every time in order to be consistent. I have never seen it called as such. In reality I usually no call it.

I never call a T , for me it's a NO CALL. Most of the time this sends a message to the players that flop will not be called.

Brad, you seem to be posting these "Great Debates" about a month after we have already beaten the topic to death. :D

I agree with the consensus from before - don't call anything, just tell the flopper to get up. Pretty soon he/she's going to realize that he's only hurting himself and his team by taking himself out of the action.

It's a no call. The defense has put themselves at a disadvantage but not being able to rebound a possible miss.
If a coach complains, I just tell him/her that it was a "flop" and it's not a valid defensive play.

I've called T only once. After several no calls by the crew. Outlet pass on fast break was just short of mid court/tableside. Player catches ball in the air and comes down with both feet to a complete stop. Defensive player is about 4 feet away, yells and falls to the court. Coach goes crazy that I don't call charge. I called the T for unsportsmanship.

"Oscars are in March" usually cleans it up when they whine about not getting the call".

Which opens a can of worms, since there was nothing wrong, therefore nothing to call, why is it a "no-call"? Where did this start. Even though I use the term and we all know what it means, it seems redundant. No-call to me implies that you should have called something, and didn't.

Oh, boy, DeNucci's been getting to ya!

It does kind of remind me of the term "near miss." Well, if you nearly missed, to me, it implies a colision . ..

No denucci, just listening to induhviduals saturday in the resturant as a game (there were 4, take your pick) was on. I must have heard "great no-call" or "awful no-call" about 600 times (along with reach and overtheback). What is a "great no-call", not calling a foul that didn't happen? In the case of a flop, this can be applied but I hear it for other things (thanks Dickie).

Maybe not working on a Saturday let me think too much...

The Flop
 

My thoughts on this play. If a player flops with no contact I am playing through this play without a whistle. If a defensive player flops and there is minor contact on the play, I will hold my whistle and if the shot misses I will (sometimes depending on severity of contact) take a foul on defender. If the contact was enough to cause the airborne offensive player to go slightly off balance and miss the layup/dunk/finger-roll/ type of shot at the rim level a block, in my estimation, is the correct call.

Players flopping with no contact at all, I would never, ever call a technical foul for unsportsmanlike behavior as was mentioned by a earlier post. This would bring unecessary attention to an official by making this particular call.

I agree with passing on this call for the most part. A few weeks ago, I had a coach in my ear saying "you gotta call something.... they're flopping all over the place and somebody's going to get hurt". We called a few blocks, but a true no contact flop was nuttin!

Any thoughts on what to say to a coach?

Re: The Flop
 

Question. Would you call a block when the contact is minor and the defender who has established LGP flops? In other words, the defender has LGP and the contact is initiated by the offense. However, the contact is just a "brush" and the defender yells and falls. If the shot misses would you still have a block or would you have nothing?

I had this situation and did not call anything. The coach of the defensive player requested a T.O. to ride me about not calling a PC foul. Now I'm still a rookie and I'm not known by most coaches, so he's giving me an ear-full and I'm explaining the lack of contact. Then my vetern partner walks over and simply says, "That was a flop coach. That's all it was" and walks away.

"Yeah... what he said!"

Mike

Mike Burns
 

I like the way you handled this play. I would not have a foul in that situation. If a defender establishes legal guarding position and then an offensive player initiates contact and the defender flops, I would have nothing. A simple response would be, Coach your player did not take the contact and bailed out by flopping. The Player control fouls we want to get are the "chest to chest" contact that usually takes both player to the floor.

Remember a defensive player is permitted to "firm up" when preparing to take an offensive foul. So many times I see officials take a good charge away because they believe the defensive player moved slightly into the offensive player. That would be considered "firming up" and an offensive foul should be called. Please do not construe this as sliding over in front of an airborne shooter from a the weakside on defense. That is a totally different play in itself. Allow your defensive player to "firm up" by a slight body movement and don't split hairs as to movement. If the movement is blatant than call a blocking foul.

This has been a good thread.

Re: Re: The Flop
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Burns

Quote:

I had this situation and did not call anything. The coach of the defensive player requested a T.O. to ride me about not calling a PC foul. Now I'm still a rookie and I'm not known by most coaches, so he's giving me an ear-full and I'm explaining the lack of contact. Then my vetern partner walks over and simply says, "That was a flop coach. That's all it was" and walks away. "Yeah... what he said!"

Mike,

Don't get frustrated that the coach took what your veteran partner said and lived with it, while he was getting a real piece of you about the same call.

One of the sad but true aspects of officiating is that of gaining the respect and credibility with the coaches. If they know you and respect you, many times even bad calls are accepted. If you are the new kid on the block, every call will be analyzed looking for a reason to question you.

Keep working to get the angles and make the good solid calls. The coaches will start to give you respect for your work. I wish that I could tell you that it will take a finite period of time, but the time needed to garner the respect for each call differs with each coach.

However, they will notice if you keep hustling and giving your best effort each time out. Good luck!!

The Flop - call something
 

In the state of Washington, we were given specific instructions from the Sate Association, that if we had bodies on the floor (in this situation) we had to have a call. My philosophy, previously, was similar to what the majority appears to be, which was: the "no call" with an occasional acccompanying comment, ie. "get up", "Oscars... etc." I must admit though, that changing has been more difficult than I thought it would be, as I find myself passing on this play still and going with the no call.

What If??
 

I had a situation recently where the defensive player obviously flopped and then the shooter came down and tripped over him. I held my whistle and got an ear full from the coach of the offensive player who wanted a foul on the player on the floor. What is the proper call in this sitch?