Backcourt Question

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Here is my interpretation - for what it is worth

A. Violation. Team A has control. The ball obtains front court status when it hits the ref who is standing in front court. When A4 touches the ball, the ball has backcourt status again.

B. I am torn what to call here. When the passed ball bounces in front court, did you end the ten second count? If so, you are judging the ball obtained front court status and that there is no player control - meaning a dribble has not started. If the dribble has not started, the three points rule does not apply. Can A1 still legally dribble that ball? Yes, but did his dribble officially begin when he passed the ball? I think no. So the ball status between the time A1 passed the ball and the time he started dribbling a loose ball becomes important. However, if you kept the ten second count on after A1 released the ball and the ball bounced in front court, then you seem to be ruling that the released ball was the start of a dribble. Then all the issues pertaining to the location of the ball and the feet of the dribbler come into play.

The question isn't whether you stopped your count, but whether or not you should stop your count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Here is my interpretation - for what it is worth

A. Violation. Team A has control. The ball obtains front court status when it hits the ref who is standing in front court. When A4 touches the ball, the ball has backcourt status again.

Did you notice that A2 threw the pass, but A4 is the one who eventually received it?
You are applying 9-9-2 to the team, when the rule is clearly written for "a player."
Also, you can't apply 9-9-1 since no player touched the ball in the frontcourt and that is part of that rule.

So my point is that if the play is not a violation under either of those two articles, what justification is there for calling one?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Ref in PA

Here is my interpretation - for what it is worth

B. I am torn what to call here. When the passed ball bounces in front court, did you end the ten second count? If so, you are judging the ball obtained front court status and that there is no player control - meaning a dribble has not started. If the dribble has not started, the three points rule does not apply. Can A1 still legally dribble that ball? Yes, but did his dribble officially begin when he passed the ball? I think no. So the ball status between the time A1 passed the ball and the time he started dribbling a loose ball becomes important. However, if you kept the ten second count on after A1 released the ball and the ball bounced in front court, then you seem to be ruling that the released ball was the start of a dribble. Then all the issues pertaining to the location of the ball and the feet of the dribbler come into play.

Here I am to add a new twist!

...It's an interrupted dribble since it's not immediately under A1's control. Thus, it's a backcourt violation. (Other interrupted dribble cases treat the interruption as if there is no dribble...PC/common foul, OOB, etc.).

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

rainmaker is correct, except that she left out the word NOT in her post while answering part 1.
Here is the rule citation:

RULE 9
SECTION 9 BACKCOURT
ART. 1 . . . A player shall not be the first to touch a ball after it has been in team control in the frontcourt, if he/she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.
ART. 2 . . . While in team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, and be the first to touch it in the backcourt.
ART. 3 . . . A player from the team not in control (defensive player or during a jump ball or throw-in) may legally jump from his/her frontcourt, secure control of the ball with both feet off the floor and return to the floor with one or both feet in the backcourt. The player may make a normal landing and it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt.
PENALTY: (Section 9) The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation.

You're right, Nevada. I was thinking that the wording was specifically that the team in control could never do this... EXCEPT during a throw-in. I looked and looked for the word EXCEPTION and couldn't find the reference. Now, I've learned something new. THanks.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You're right about #1 not being a violation, but you've got the wrong reason. When you say that a throw-in isn't complete until the player touches the floor, that's incorrect. And it's not the reason that there's no violation in the stated play. The reason (in NFHS) is .... darn it, I can't find the dag-nabbit citation, but there's an exception written into the rules that says that a player from the team in control can catch the ball while in mid-air, having jumped from that team's frontcourt, and land in the backcourt, and it's not a violation.

In #2, it's a violation. The three point rule only applies to a player dribbling from backcourt to frontcourt. In your play, the ball begins with backcourt status. It is then passed to A2 who has frontcourt status, even while in the air since he jumped from the frontcourt, so when the ball touches A2, it attains frontcourt status. Now when A2 lands in the backcourt, the ball has backcourt status again. Tweet!

Please accept this amendment to sitch #1 above - The exception applies to throw-ins.

Also, please, note Nevada's 1:15AM post for further exceptions.