Another Basket Interference Thread

[JoeTheRef]

This may have been discussed so I apologize in advance..... Ball is coming off the rim but is in contact with the side of the rim. A1 pins the ball against side then attempts to slam through the basketball. Trail calls BI. Its happened twice, and both times it was a breakaway play and I'm the new lead and I have a perfect look at the play because of course, I didn't make it back down to the endline. After the second time, I ask my partner why is that BI if the ball isn't on top of the rim or in the imaginary cylinder. She said it's still considered on the rim if it's on the side still in contact of the rim. This is FED rules men's league. I can't find a case play for BI in the FED rules (again, I have an old book, but the BI rule hasn't changed in awhile, has it?) Anyways, now I'm brushing up on the college rules, and I see a specific case play which is a similar situation that I'm referring to. (A.R. 68. The ball is touching the side of the ring of Team A. B1 jumps and contacts the
net. The ball is not touching the top of the ring. RULING: No violation. The ball shall remain live.)

My question is, is the BI rules the same for FED and NCAA? Thanks in advance.

[just another ref]

Basket interference occurs when a player touches the ball or any part of the basket while the ball is on or within either basket.


On means on top of, does it not? Since it does not say violation to touch the ball while it contacts the rim, I say no violation. Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

This may have been discussed so I apologize in advance..... Ball is coming off the rim but is in contact with the side of the rim. A1 pins the ball against side then attempts to slam through the basketball. Trail calls BI. Its happened twice, and both times it was a breakaway play and I'm the new lead and I have a perfect look at the play because of course, I didn't make it back down to the endline. After the second time, I ask my partner why is that BI if the ball isn't on top of the rim or in the imaginary cylinder. She said it's still considered on the rim if it's on the side still in contact of the rim. This is FED rules men's league. I can't find a case play for BI in the FED rules (again, I have an old book, but the BI rule hasn't changed in awhile, has it?) Anyways, now I'm brushing up on the college rules, and I see a specific case play which is a similar situation that I'm referring to. (A.R. 68. The ball is touching the side of the ring of Team A. B1 jumps and contacts the
net. The ball is not touching the top of the ring. RULING: No violation. The ball shall remain live.)

My question is, is the BI rules the same for FED and NCAA? Thanks in advance.

The NFHS rule is the same as that of the NCAA.

From page 73 of the 2006-07 NFHS Case Book:

9.11.1 SITUATION F: The ball is touching the side of the basket ring of Team A. B1 jumps and B1's hand contacts the net. The ball definitely is not touching the top of the basket ring. RULING: This is not a violation. The ball remains live.

[JoeTheRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS rule is the same as that of the NCAA.

From page 73 of the 2006-07 NFHS Case Book:

9.11.1 SITUATION F: The ball is touching the side of the basket ring of Team A. B1 jumps and B1's hand contacts the net. The ball definitely is not touching the top of the basket ring. RULING: This is not a violation. The ball remains live.

Thanks for the reference. I thought I was right, I know am now..

As a sidebar... I want to reiterate what a valuable tool this forum is for basketball officials. I just recently got picked by my first college conference(s). After the excitement wore down, I thought about all the things and people that helped me get to where I am. I must say that this forum has been a tremendous help. Thanks again to all.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

Thanks for the reference. I thought I was right, I know am now..

As a sidebar... I want to reiterate what a valuable tool this forum is for basketball officials. I just recently got picked by my first college conference(s). After the excitement wore down, I thought about all the things and people that helped me get to where I am. I must say that this forum has been a tremendous help. Thanks again to all.

I was going to make a remark about you thanking "all but one", but I realized that having someone here who is wrong all the time and having everyone know who that is can also be valuable - it teaches you what not to do.

I guess someone has to be the bad example just to prove the rule (pun intended).

BTW - congrats.

[SeanFitzRef]

Reading the OP again, the BALL was contacted by the player, not the net. Shouldn't we be looking at the situation that pertains to this play???

Rule 4.6.1 NFHS

Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.

From the OP, the Ball was on the basket while it was touched. Sounds like the partner got it right.


NFHS
9.11.1 Situation A: A1 taps the ball toward Team A’s basket. While the ball is in the cylinder above the basket or on the basket ring: (a) B1 touches the ball; or (b) A2 touches the ball.
Ruling: In (a), basket interference by B1 causes the ball to become dead and the official shall award Team A two points. In (b), the basket interference by A2 causes the ball to become dead. No basket. The ball is awarded to Team B for a throw-in from the out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (4-6; 6-7-8)

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I was going to make a remark about you thanking "all but one", but I realized that having someone here who is wrong all the time and having everyone know who that is can also be valuable - it teaches you what not to do.

I guess someone has to be the bad example just to prove the rule (pun intended).

BTW - congrats.

Hey, don't try to deminish my worth. You're welcome. I'm honored to be the one the stirs the pot to get you to see things more clearly. To help understand why the rules are the way they are. Learning is learning, whether it's on the fly, by making mistakes, or baptism by fire. A wise man once said, what doesn't kill you, makes you better.

On to the topic. Tell me what you think about possibly switching this primary responsiblity to the Lead since the Lead is so much closer to the play. I think by placing the primary for this call on the Trail or Trail/Center, you get put in a situation where you don't want to miss a call in your primary which leads to a tendency to reach out and get that call even though, you don't have a good look at it. I know I've done it. I also know that as the lead in this situation, I have seen just about everybody call a GT or a BI when it wasn't.

Not to mention, touching the ball while it's on the rim is probably not the smartest thing to do as a player. Also, I imagine that if you where following the play but got yourself in position to make a call on the play, your trail was in the backcourt, assuming 2 person. With that being said, the T probably felt like me, this is my primary call and I got to get this call. Beep!!!! I just think that the best person to get this call is the Lead, escpecially if the violation occurs on Lead side. If the violation occurs on C or T side, then they have the primary. Your thoughts.....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

Reading the OP again, the BALL was contacted by the player, not the net. Shouldn't we be looking at the situation that pertains to this play???

Rule 4.6.1 NFHS

Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.

From the OP, the Ball was on the basket while it was touched. Sounds like the partner got it right.


NFHS
9.11.1 Situation A: A1 taps the ball toward Team A’s basket. While the ball is in the cylinder above the basket or on the basket ring: (a) B1 touches the ball; or (b) A2 touches the ball.
Ruling: In (a), basket interference by B1 causes the ball to become dead and the official shall award Team A two points. In (b), the basket interference by A2 causes the ball to become dead. No basket. The ball is awarded to Team B for a throw-in from the out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (4-6; 6-7-8)

Case book play 9.11.1SitA isn't relevant. The ball was on the side of the rim when it was touched, as per the original post. It wasn't ON the ring as noted in your cited case book play. The case book play that Nevada previously cited--9.11.1SitF is the exact same play as the original post. Iow, no BI

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

Hey, don't try to deminish my worth. You're welcome.

I find it very reinforcing that you assumed I was referring to you.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

I find it very reinforcing that you assumed I was referring to you.

Well, who where you referring too?

Very reinforcing......

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SeanFitzRef

Reading the OP again, the BALL was contacted by the player, not the net. Shouldn't we be looking at the situation that pertains to this play???

Rule 4.6.1 NFHS

Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.

From the OP, the Ball was on the basket while it was touched. Sounds like the partner got it right.


NFHS
9.11.1 Situation A: A1 taps the ball toward Team A’s basket. While the ball is in the cylinder above the basket or on the basket ring: (a) B1 touches the ball; or (b) A2 touches the ball.
Ruling: In (a), basket interference by B1 causes the ball to become dead and the official shall award Team A two points. In (b), the basket interference by A2 causes the ball to become dead. No basket. The ball is awarded to Team B for a throw-in from the out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation. (4-6; 6-7-8)

Fitz, you are thinking in the proper way about what is the key issue here, but you aren't grasping that the case play which I cited is addressing exactly that.

As you have pointed out the key idea is what is the NFHS definition of ON or WITHIN. The case play that I cited tells us that to the SIDE is NOT considered ON or WITHIN. Therefore, whether the player touches the ball or the net doesn't matter. Either way no violation has occurred with this positioning of the ball.

On the other hand, in the case play which you referenced, the ball is ON or WITHIN the basket or the cylinder and thus touching the ball is illegal. It is okay to touch the basket if the ball is above the ring in the cylinder.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Old School

Hey, don't try to deminish my worth. You're welcome. I'm honored to be the one the stirs the pot to get you to see things more clearly. To help understand why the rules are the way they are. Learning is learning, whether it's on the fly, by making mistakes, or baptism by fire. A wise man once said, what doesn't kill you, makes you better.

On to the topic. Tell me what you think about possibly switching this primary responsiblity to the Lead since the Lead is so much closer to the play. I think by placing the primary for this call on the Trail or Trail/Center, you get put in a situation where you don't want to miss a call in your primary which leads to a tendency to reach out and get that call even though, you don't have a good look at it. I know I've done it. I also know that as the lead in this situation, I have seen just about everybody call a GT or a BI when it wasn't.

Not to mention, touching the ball while it's on the rim is probably not the smartest thing to do as a player. Also, I imagine that if you where following the play but got yourself in position to make a call on the play, your trail was in the backcourt, assuming 2 person. With that being said, the T probably felt like me, this is my primary call and I got to get this call. Beep!!!! I just think that the best person to get this call is the Lead, escpecially if the violation occurs on Lead side. If the violation occurs on C or T side, then they have the primary. Your thoughts.....

"Information listed here is just an opinion and should not be considered actual rule interpretation or the legal advice of this forum. Consult your rulebook if in doubt."

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by JoeTheRef

I just recently got picked by my first college conference(s).

Joe, congrats. That's very exciting. Every step is a new challenge. Now, as some of my partners say, don't bleep it up.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Joe, congrats. That's very exciting. Every step is a new challenge. Now, as some of my partners say, don't bleep it up.

Right. Like anybody ever says "bleep" instead of the much more descriptive and satisfying "****".

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Right. Like anybody ever says "bleep" instead of the much more descriptive and satisfying "****".

Well, I don't do men's college, but I do say "bleep" instead of the much more obnoxious and adolescent *******.