Jump stop

[pitchfork]

All of you are making this way too hard. Coaches(lute Olson, Ralph Miller, Tex Winter and John Wooden come to mid) teach 2 types of jump stops. 1) a one count jump stop( opon landing you may pivot shoot or pass or even execute a step through move where the pivot foot can be lifted) 2) a Two count jump stop(opon landing you have no pivot foot and may shoot or pass or lift one foot to shoot or pass) This terminology, one and two count jump stop while not in the current rulebook has been taught by some of the best coaches since at least the 1930s, and I believe the terms were in the rulebook at one time.60s

Many high school referees call the first example a travel because "it looks like a travel" and because most players at that level can"t execute the move in a leagal manner and it is a travel.

As a ref if you explain it that way most coaches worth having a discussion with will know exactly what you are talking about if they don't you most likely will be wasting your breath no matter what you say.

[Adam]

Wow, this doesn't help me. Then again, I understand the concepts well. You're a little bit wrong on #2, though. The player may pick up either or both feet as long as neither one touches the floor after going up and before the player legally relinquishes player control.

#1 (the 2nd jump stop everyone is talking about), to me, is just a landing. Rebounders do it all the time. The only difference is that with the "jump stop," players are typically moving horizontally as they gather the ball. The definition of this particular move is really not needed in the part of the rule book describing the other jump stop.

What I mean is, the "catch-and-land" jump stop is legal even without this reference. The "catch-leap-and-land" jump stop is not legal without this particular portion of the rules.

The "one count" and "two count" explanations aren't going to help. Coaches who know what it is will either leave you alone or they saw it differently. If an explanation is warranted and time allows, just tell them what they did specifically to warrant the call.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by pitchfork

1) All of you are making this way too hard. Coaches(lute Olson, Ralph Miller, Tex Winter and John Wooden come to mid) teach 2 types of jump stops. 1) a one count jump stop( opon landing you may pivot shoot or pass or even execute a step through move where the pivot foot can be lifted) 2) a Two count jump stop(opon landing you have no pivot foot and may shoot or pass or lift one foot to shoot or pass) This terminology, one and two count jump stop while not in the current rulebook has been taught by some of the best coaches since at least the 1930s, and I believe the terms were in the rulebook at one time.60s

2) Many high school referees call the first example a travel because "it looks like a travel" and because most players at that level can"t execute the move in a leagal manner and it is a travel.

1) We're making it too hard? I don't have a clue what you're talking about in either #1 or #2. It's confusing as hell. Are you talking about landing on both feet simulaneously in #1, and in #2 landing on one foot followed by the other, or landing on one foot and jumping onto both feet simultaneously?

2) Disagree completely. Do you have any statistics that will back up that statement?

[blindzebra]

The funny part about this is that in both cases the player is almost always jumping off of one foot and landing on two, the difference is where they gathered or caught the ball...some of us are just able to recognize this, some apparently not.

[pitchfork]

Jurassic Referee

Very simple, with a one count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and you have a pivot still available. A two count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and dont have a piviot foot available. In your question you thought #2 may reefer to landing on one foot followed by the other, that would be a stride stop, not a jump stop. We could open a whole new can of worms describing the legal footwork allowed after a stride stop depending of course when the and how the ball was gathered but.....

as far as stats none, just personal experience watching high school games in LA. Even with clear knowledge of the rules it can be a tough call because the game moves so fast.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by pitchfork

Jurassic Referee

Very simple, with a one count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and you have a pivot still available. A two count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and dont have a piviot foot available. In your question you thought #2 may reefer to landing on one foot followed by the other, that would be a stride stop, not a jump stop. We could open a whole new can of worms describing the legal footwork allowed after a stride stop depending of course when the and how the ball was gathered but.....

This one's easy and simple. First foot down after the ball is gathered is the pivot. Now, see pivot rules for traveling.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by pitchfork

1) Very simple, with a one count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and you have a pivot still available. A two count jump stop you land on two feet at the same time and dont have a piviot foot available.

2) In your question you thought #2 may reefer to landing on one foot followed by the other, that would be a stride stop, not a jump stop. We could open a whole new can of worms describing the legal footwork allowed after a stride stop depending of course when the and how the ball was gathered but.....

1) I hate to tell you this, pitchfork, but that statement makes absolutely zero sense. Both cases that you cited are the exact same--->in both, the player is landing on both feet at the same time. But......in one, you say that the player has a pivot foot, but they don't have one in the other. Again, the rules, both NCAA and NFHS, are very explicit. If you land on both feet simultaneously, you can pivot on either foot.

2) Again, what can of worms? This play is also covered very explicitly under both NCAA and NFHS rules. The first foot that the player lands on is always the pivot foot.

Both of those calls are easy, as long as an official reads and understands the rules. A good official will have no problems at all with them. Those rules haven't changed in the last 50 years either, no matter what some people might want to call them.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by pitchfork

All of you are making this way too hard. Coaches(lute Olson, Ralph Miller, Tex Winter and John Wooden come to mid) teach 2 types of jump stops. 1) a one count jump stop( opon landing you may pivot shoot or pass or even execute a step through move where the pivot foot can be lifted) 2) a Two count jump stop(opon landing you have no pivot foot and may shoot or pass or lift one foot to shoot or pass)

1) I agree that nearly everybody is making this too hard.

2) I don't think the one-count/two-count terminology makes it any easier. That's NBA terminology. I have to admit that I never played college ball, but I've never heard any college coach use that terminology. Even if it is a coaching term, that doesn't mean we should adopt it. No coach ever said to me "That's a good two-count stop!" after a travel call.

3) Officials simply need to learn the rule, without worrying about whether the move is technically a "jump stop" or not.

(a) Catch the ball in the air, and land on two feet -- either foot is the pivot;
(b) catch the ball in the air and land on one foot followed by the second foot -- the first foot is the pivot;
(c) catch the ball in the air and land on one foot, jump and land on two feet -- no pivot.

That's all any official needs to know.

4) I agree that this is called very inconsistently at the high school level.