Would you "T"

[Texas Aggie]

I understand what Rut is saying and I agree with some of it (no need to reference point by point for either agreement or refutation), but I think you can't compare a player going down to injury and using several expletives to a coach who's berating his team in a loud enough voice for me (much less anyone else) to hear. The former isn't unsportsmanlike and the latter is, and the SPIRIT AND INTENT of the rule in this situation is to penalize unsporting behavior. When a player is injured, just about all bets are off. We aren't going to penalize a coach or trainer who bolts off the bench at the first sign of a SERIOUS injury (been there a few times too many) even before beckoned, but we would in virtually every other case.

Getting back to the situation at hand: cussing in the huddle. I go over there and remind the coach what we are here for (i.e. "coach, remember, we are here to be good sports and set examples") and/or to ask him to lower his voice. At that point and time, its an easy T if the request(s) are not complied with.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Getting back to the situation at hand: cussing in the huddle. I go over there and remind the coach what we are here for (i.e. "coach, remember, we are here to be good sports and set examples") and/or to ask him to lower his voice. At that point and time, its an easy T if the request(s) are not complied with.

There is your answer gentlemen. Very well stated I might add. Give the coach a change to correct it himself. He may not know that he is that out of line. Remember, if the gym is crowded with a lot of fans, you can't hear him anyway. This past weekend, I saw a coach (female) hit a player after a timeout. It was not aggressive or over the top, but none the less borders on being inappropriate. Our jobs of being officials must take into account everyone well being, including the coaches. The coaches can be your friends if you give them the chance. If you remove that chance, they can be your worse enemy.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

The coaches can be your friends if you give them the chance.

Typical rec league thinking. Ignore.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Old School

The coaches can be your friends if you give them the chance. If you remove that chance, they can be your worse enemy.

There's a difference between working a game to "make friends" and working a game to "gain respect". Given the choice, I'll take the latter every time.

BTW - if I saw a coach hit a player, in anything other than a teasing, playful way (like a "mock" tap just to be funny), that coach is gone, a report will be filed and I would be available to testify in court in a child abuse case.

Off topic - my wife and I raised three wonderful kids who are now grown and have families of their own. Not once in their entire lifetimes did I ever raise a hand to them and hit/spank them. I told them they can pay me back by treating their kids the same way. So far, with all seven grandkids, it's working great.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

There's a difference between working a game to "make friends" and working a game to "gain respect". Given the choice, I'll take the latter every time.

BTW - if I saw a coach hit a player, in anything other than a teasing, playful way (like a "mock" tap just to be funny), that coach is gone, a report will be filed and I would be available to testify in court in a child abuse case.

Off topic - my wife and I raised three wonderful kids who are now grown and have families of their own. Not once in their entire lifetimes did I ever raise a hand to them and hit/spank them. I told them they can pay me back by treating their kids the same way. So far, with all seven grandkids, it's working great.

Let's not go down the wrong path here. Instead of saying friends, I should have said ally. Coaches can be a great ally to the successful job you're trying to do on the court.

Unfortunately, I have seen the worse in this game. I have seen coaches grab kids and kids crying, and coaches blaming kids for losing games. It is a mess out here people and it's happening at such a young age. A sad state of affairs. I am on the border of snapping myself. If a see one more kid be abused just to play a game of bb, you might be reading about me on the news. The lady that slapped the kid was not in any way bad, as I indicated. However, it was a packed gym and I'm sure parents saw it. Parents that want Johnnie to be the next Oden or Durant are willing to accept certain unpleasant reality's.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

Let's not go down the wrong path here. Instead of saying friends, I should have said ally. Coaches can be a great ally to the successful job you're trying to do on the court.

Rec league thinking. Ignore.

You never make any call in any game while worrying about whatinthehell a coach might think of that call. If you want a friend or an ally, go see Dr. Phil. Coaches aren't neutral; they care who wins and they want all the close calls to go their way. There's nothing the matter with either, unless you delude yourself into thinking that you can be a friend or an ally of one of the coaches while also officiating a fair, balanced and even game.

Officials who worry about what coaches think will remain in their rec leagues forever. That's where they belong too.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Rec league thinking. Ignore.

You never make any call in any game while worrying about whatinthehell a coach might think of that call. If you want a friend or an ally, go see Dr. Phil. Coaches aren't neutral; they care who wins and they want all the close calls to go their way. There's nothing the matter with either, unless you delude yourself into thinking that you can be a friend or an ally of one of the coaches while also officiating a fair, balanced and even game.

Officials who worry about what coaches think will remain in their rec leagues forever. That's where they belong too.

Coaches control the players, players control the game. Referees manage the game. If you have a game that has gone bad, coaches can be a great ally by removing bad players, by keeping there team in control, by controlling there fans. It is complete asinine thinking to ignore the coaches or not try to utilize there help.

In any contest, if the coaches are on my side. I have a better chance of being successful which is why I make it a point to talk to both coaches before the game. It doesn't matter if it's rec league or professional, coaches can be an ally and a great asset to a well officiated game. They can also destroy a game and your career as well.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

It doesn't matter if it's rec league or professional, coaches can be an ally and a great asset to a well officiated game. They can also destroy a game and your career as well.

Typical rec league thinking. Ignore.

Coaches have absolutely nothing to do with a well officiated game. Coaches aren't making the calls; we are. Yes, coaches sureashell can also destroy a game though. And yes, sometimes there's absolutely nothing that we can do as officials either to stop coaches from screwing up a game. Sh!t happens. That little fact has got absolutely nothing to do with how that game is being officiated however. Do your job. Officiate the game and don't worry about the damn coaches. If you're looking for approval, you're in the wrong racket. The only "allies" that you'll ever gonna be able to count on during a game are your partners. That's because you and your partners are also the only ones in the gym who don't care who wins.

Note: that's my opinion for others that might be reading. I don't expect Cappy/JMO to agree with or even understand what I'm saying.