Would you "T"

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Rec league thinking. Ignore.

You never make any call in any game while worrying about whatinthehell a coach might think of that call. If you want a friend or an ally, go see Dr. Phil. Coaches aren't neutral; they care who wins and they want all the close calls to go their way. There's nothing the matter with either, unless you delude yourself into thinking that you can be a friend or an ally of one of the coaches while also officiating a fair, balanced and even game.

Officials who worry about what coaches think will remain in their rec leagues forever. That's where they belong too.

Coaches control the players, players control the game. Referees manage the game. If you have a game that has gone bad, coaches can be a great ally by removing bad players, by keeping there team in control, by controlling there fans. It is complete asinine thinking to ignore the coaches or not try to utilize there help.

In any contest, if the coaches are on my side. I have a better chance of being successful which is why I make it a point to talk to both coaches before the game. It doesn't matter if it's rec league or professional, coaches can be an ally and a great asset to a well officiated game. They can also destroy a game and your career as well.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

It doesn't matter if it's rec league or professional, coaches can be an ally and a great asset to a well officiated game. They can also destroy a game and your career as well.

Typical rec league thinking. Ignore.

Coaches have absolutely nothing to do with a well officiated game. Coaches aren't making the calls; we are. Yes, coaches sureashell can also destroy a game though. And yes, sometimes there's absolutely nothing that we can do as officials either to stop coaches from screwing up a game. Sh!t happens. That little fact has got absolutely nothing to do with how that game is being officiated however. Do your job. Officiate the game and don't worry about the damn coaches. If you're looking for approval, you're in the wrong racket. The only "allies" that you'll ever gonna be able to count on during a game are your partners. That's because you and your partners are also the only ones in the gym who don't care who wins.

Note: that's my opinion for others that might be reading. I don't expect Cappy/JMO to agree with or even understand what I'm saying.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Typical rec league thinking. Ignore.

Coaches have absolutely nothing to do with a well officiated game. Coaches aren't making the calls; we are. Yes, coaches sureashell can also destroy a game though. And yes, sometimes there's absolutely nothing that we can do as officials either to stop coaches from screwing up a game. Sh!t happens. That little fact has got absolutely nothing to do with how that game is being officiated however. Do your job. Officiate the game and don't worry about the damn coaches. If you're looking for approval, you're in the wrong racket. The only "allies" that you'll ever gonna be able to count on during a game are your partners. That's because you and your partners are also the only ones in the gym who don't care who wins.

Note: that's my opinion for others that might be reading. I don't expect Cappy/JMO to agree with or even understand what I'm saying.

JR, we do not referee on an island. As you are teaching young men and women about being an official. Be cautious of your rhetoric. You can not pursue this profession and ignore the people around it and within it. Coaches are a very big part of this game, hence, they do get paid more then we do. Agree or not, it is a fact. Another fact, this is a people business. This is not an individual, I don't care what nobody thinks business. The minute you walk into a game and you don't care about what a coach thinks, you are done moving up.

I don't referee for approval but in order to get put on a game, much less a game that I would really like to work. Somebody has to approve me. That approval might just come from my ability to communicate.

[deecee]

i hate to say it but to some degree i agree with OS here -- JR you sometimes talk to much in a vacuum and the reality is, like OS said, we are all a part of the same game. there should be a greater effort on all sides to work better together.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by deecee

i hate to say it but to some degree i agree with OS here -- JR you sometimes talk to much in a vacuum and the reality is, like OS said, we are all a part of the same game. there should be a greater effort on all sides to work better together.

Feel free to ignore completely what I'm saying. Shrug.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

JR, we do not referee on an island. As you are teaching young men and women about being an official. Be cautious of your rhetoric. You can not pursue this profession and ignore the people around it and within it. Coaches are a very big part of this game, hence, they do get paid more then we do. Agree or not, it is a fact. Another fact, this is a people business. This is not an individual, I don't care what nobody thinks business. The minute you walk into a game and you don't care about what a coach thinks, you are done moving up.

I don't referee for approval but in order to get put on a game, much less a game that I would really like to work. Somebody has to approve me. That approval might just come from my ability to communicate.

Again, you don't have a clue either as to what I've been saying. That's completely to be expected. Officials will understand it though.

There's a big difference between getting along with a coach and sucking around a coach. You don't seem to understand that. That's not surprising.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

i hate to say it but to some degree i agree with OS here -- JR you sometimes talk to much in a vacuum and the reality is, like OS said, we are all a part of the same game. there should be a greater effort on all sides to work better together.

I would not go that far. JR sometimes does talk in a bit of a vacuum, but that does not mean "Cappy" is right either. "Cappy" likes to also act as if we are somehow obligated to make the coach happy. We are apart of the same game but we do not have the same role. And when we start cow towing to a coach, we are going to lose our purpose as officials

As a matter of fact remember most assignors are fellow officials. The camp I was at an assignor said the minute he gets a recommendation from a coach, you are done. In his opinion coaches cannot be trusted because they often have agendas.

Also I have almost always been supported by an assignor when I am doing my job. Coaches complain that is what they do. I agree that coaches have some influence, but they certainly do not play such a role that I have to do my job based on who they are.

Peace

[deecee]

whos cappy?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

whos cappy?

Old School.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Again, you don't have a clue either as to what I've been saying. That's completely to be expected. Officials will understand it though.

No, I think it is you who don't have a clue.

There's a big difference between getting along with a coach and sucking around a coach. You don't seem to understand that. That's not surprising.

Who said anything about sucking up to a coach. I challenge you to show me where I stated this. I said communicating with a coach. Communicating doesn't have to mean sucking up. Perhaps the biggest thing to learn as a veteran official is the art of communication. Sometimes you might have to lower that hammer and be the sheriff, and when that time comes you have better make that switch quick or you will be in trouble.

On the other hand, you can not walk around half-cocked like JR everytime you take the floor either. You will end up like Joey Crawford who now has a permanent bad mark on his record. There is a balance that we have to stride for in communications. More can never hurt you but being too hard nose can and will.

I have no clue what you are talking about JRUT. I can not imagine an assigner tossing a referee out because a coach recommended him. That is extreme and I don't think we can get very many assigners to come out here and admit to that.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To me going in a huddle to give a T based on what is said within a team huddle is looking for trouble.
Peace

I'll agree to that. However, if I can hear it, it's not in the huddle anymore.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

I have no clue what you are talking about JRUT.

That's hardly surprising, Cappy. You still don't have a clue as to what I was talking about either.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

I have no clue what you are talking about JRUT. I can not imagine an assigner tossing a referee out because a coach recommended him. That is extreme and I don't think we can get very many assigners to come out here and admit to that.

When you do not have an understanding of the concept of officiating, it is not surprising you would not understand why an assignor would be very skeptical of who a coach recommends and the reasons behind that recommendation.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

When you do not have an understanding of the concept of officiating, it is not surprising you would not understand why an assignor would be very skeptical of who a coach recommends and the reasons behind that recommendation.

Peace

So you're saying a coach can't make an unbias decision that he/she feels a referee is good and deserving. Geece JRUT, I'm disappointed. Who the hell do you think votes a referee into the hall of fame? I was not born yesterday.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Old School

So you're saying a coach can't make an unbias decision that he/she feels a referee is good and deserving. Geece JRUT, I'm disappointed.

I am not saying anything other than repeating comments from a Division 1 Assignor. I was sharing you what someone who is hired by a conference what he thinks of coaches and their opinions about officials. I have been to many college camps and I have yet to see any coaches as evaluators of the officials to decide who gets hired. Now coaches my have an opinion, but it is weighed up against the rules, mechanics and procedures set by the conference, NCAA or the assignor.

Originally Posted by Old School

Who the hell do you think votes a referee into the hall of fame? I was not born yesterday.

The Hall of Fame? You honestly talked about the Hall of Fame? I guess............................................. ..no I will stop while I am ahead.

Peace