Getting feedback from the Varsity Crew

[NURef]

I'm a second year official getting my first shot at regulation high school bball...freshman & some JV games this winter. Over the last year I've been so impressed with the feedback, help and exchange of information from my partners...lots to learn and lots of mistakes.

However, several veteran officials have warned me that don't be surprised if you don't get an open arms welcome from the varsity crew as you complete your freahman or JV game heading into the dressing room looking to get some quality feedback or discuss a situation. Why is this? Is it due to that fact that the varsity crew is getting mentally set for their game or is it that I'm just not worthy as a rookie...probably both. Also, any tips on how to break the ice? Thanks!

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by NURef

I'm a second year official getting my first shot at regulation high school bball...freshman & some JV games this winter. Over the last year I've been so impressed with the feedback, help and exchange of information from my partners...lots to learn and lots of mistakes.

However, several veteran officials have warned me that don't be surprised if you don't get an open arms welcome from the varsity crew as you complete your freahman or JV game heading into the dressing room looking to get some quality feedback or discuss a situation. Why is this? Is it due to that fact that the varsity crew is getting mentally set for their game or is it that I'm just not worthy as a rookie...probably both. Also, any tips on how to break the ice? Thanks!

Around here, the varsity crews are instructed to give attention and critique to the up-and-comers, and if they get snotty about it, they can get "in trouble". It still happens, of course, but it's at least a theory that the varsity people should give help.

The best way to handle it is to find out who's doing the varsity game, and ask for their time the day or two before the game. If a person is open to helping you, they're more likely to be able if they can schedule their own prep time to include talking to you. If they're not open to it, at least you'll know ahead of time.

Don't expect more than a minute or two, maybe a point or two. They DO have a game to get to of their own, and you ARE intruding on their pre-game.

Also, be sure you're receiving the critique gratefully and attentively. DON'T get the reputation of being a "Yea, but..." kinda ref. Even if you think what they say is totally weird, just say, "I see. Thanks." or "So I need to work on angles. That's helpful" or something else innocuous.

And when you're "the varsity guy" be sure you are giving back, in the same way and amount that you're asking from others. Don't morph into "one of those".

And if you get some great help or feedback, be sure you express your appreciation. You don't have to be obsequious (or purple or clairvoyant), but be sincere and warm about it.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by NURef

I'm a second year official getting my first shot at regulation high school bball...freshman & some JV games this winter. Over the last year I've been so impressed with the feedback, help and exchange of information from my partners...lots to learn and lots of mistakes.

However, several veteran officials have warned me that don't be surprised if you don't get an open arms welcome from the varsity crew as you complete your freahman or JV game heading into the dressing room looking to get some quality feedback or discuss a situation. Why is this? Is it due to that fact that the varsity crew is getting mentally set for their game or is it that I'm just not worthy as a rookie...probably both. Also, any tips on how to break the ice? Thanks!

First of all, don't spend too much time worrying about it if a veteran isn't willing to help you out. We have all been rookies at one time and were helped by a veteran so we are obligated to return the favor. If a veteran isn't willing to help out, just forget them.

I know some veterans who have become jaded because some of the rookies that they have offered to help were "know-it-alls" and didn't want help. So now they don't give help to anyone. IMO, that's pretty lame (and a cop-out).

Rainmaker has a good idea in contacting the varsity crew ahead of time. Whenever a newer official calls me or e-mails me and asks if I'll critique them, I make sure to get there early for their entire game and give them a written evaluation. That way, I still have something to give them even if I don't have time to talk to them after their game (a thorough pregame before my game is very important to me).

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by NURef

I'm a second year official getting my first shot at regulation high school bball...freshman & some JV games this winter. Over the last year I've been so impressed with the feedback, help and exchange of information from my partners...lots to learn and lots of mistakes.

However, several veteran officials have warned me that don't be surprised if you don't get an open arms welcome from the varsity crew as you complete your freahman or JV game heading into the dressing room looking to get some quality feedback or discuss a situation. Why is this? Is it due to that fact that the varsity crew is getting mentally set for their game or is it that I'm just not worthy as a rookie...probably both. Also, any tips on how to break the ice? Thanks!

Why? Because there are all types of people.

There are some who love to mentor, to give advice.

There are some who are interested in mentoring.

Also, there are those that are interested in being mentored.

And there are some they aren't.

Personally, I've run into too many who are interested in hearing what the veterans have to say. They think they've got it down pat, and don't want to hear it from the "old" guys.

Rarely do I offer advice at the JV guys finish unless they ask. If I see something that they royally screwed up, then I'll tactfully ask about it. (I've even done that in the gym. See below. ) But as for offering a critique, NOPE, not unless I'm point blank asked.

Just a quickie about the situation I mentioned above:

I watched a JV game with a 3 man crew go into OT. The R started to put the ball in play with the AP arrow! The 3 had debated and either the R had won out or it was 2 against 1. Fortunately, the arrow was pointing to the end I was sitting on. I got up while the teams breaking their huddles, went to the L and told him they were making a mistake. He said, "That's what I tried to tell him." He went to the R, told him what I had said, the R looked at me in the stands, and the tossed the jump ball.

[refnrev]

You'll fine the V guys that are a great help and some that won't be. Some are really interested in helping everyone get better and advance and progress and some, although they don't come close, think they walk on water. One point... if a V official gives you advice, listen, and thank them. Even of you disagree, don't voice that opinion to them. Talk to someone else.

[NURef]

Excellent feedback...I had never thought of calling in advance. It also sounds like I need to keep the information exchange short and with little debate...take it for what it's worth and discuss with my partner.

Thanks a ton!

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Rainmaker has a good idea in contacting the varsity crew ahead of time. Whenever a newer official calls me or e-mails me and asks if I'll critique them, I make sure to get there early for their entire game and give them a written evaluation. That way, I still have something to give them even if I don't have time to talk to them after their game (a thorough pregame before my game is very important to me).

Last time I asked a senior Official to come out early for some feedback he wanted to charge me $30 for an evaluation. Thanks but no thanks.

[Odd Duck]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Last time I asked a senior Official to come out early for some feedback he wanted to charge me $30 for an evaluation. Thanks but no thanks.

Well, let's do the math. I just paid $200 for a camp and had 4 games. That works out to $50 per evaluation. Granted, the clinicians were all D1 on the womens side and not a "local yokel", but they also stated up front that they would be focusing on floor positioning and mechanics...not rules...and that we needed to remember that "when in Rome...". They also stated their recall of NFHS rules may not be 100% acurate and to check with our local rules interpreter. Now, I learned a lot at the camp and got some fantastic pointers on floor coverage and techniques for us not-so-fleet-footed guys.

With the local guy, you get the local preferences/exceptions/customs on both mechanics and rules application. Would I ask for a game fee...no. Is the request unreasonable...not really...IMO.

[refin1]

odd Duck, Some V officials forget where they come from. My advise is to find a veteran official who's been thru the fire, ask them if they would be willing to mentor you , accept their advise graciously and go along for the ride. Have fun with officiating and always remember to keep your family first

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NURef

I'm a second year official getting my first shot at regulation high school bball...freshman & some JV games this winter. Over the last year I've been so impressed with the feedback, help and exchange of information from my partners...lots to learn and lots of mistakes.

However, several veteran officials have warned me that don't be surprised if you don't get an open arms welcome from the varsity crew as you complete your freahman or JV game heading into the dressing room looking to get some quality feedback or discuss a situation. Why is this? Is it due to that fact that the varsity crew is getting mentally set for their game or is it that I'm just not worthy as a rookie...probably both. Also, any tips on how to break the ice? Thanks!

Let me put it this way. The locker room is not the best place to give a lot of advice between games. Many times the officials are already in a pre-game or getting themselves ready to work their game. Also they may not have watched a lot of the previous game at all.

Find a mentor that you can trust and use that person or persons more than some random veteran. Not all varsity officials are worthy to teach or to give good advice. Teaching just like officiating is a skill. Not everyone has the ability to share their knowledge of the game.

All I would say is if you want advice, ask for it. Many are not going to just volunteer their opinions about your game even if they paid attention. There are many rookies that do not take too kindly to a veteran that just gives advice unsolicited. Also talk too many in your association and you might be surprised when people see you are eager to learn they will be more likely to help you out. Finally if you are working a JV or freshman game before a veteran, stay and watch their entire game if you can. It burns me when I see younger officials just leave and then they complain no one helped them out. One of the best ways to learn about officiating is to actually watch veterans work games. You will pick up a lot of little things you would never do by not watching. Also ask questions what took place in the veteran’s games.

Peace

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by SmokeEater

Last time I asked a senior Official to come out early for some feedback he wanted to charge me $30 for an evaluation. Thanks but no thanks.

I hope you don't let that one experience keep you from trying it again. I have never heard of anyone doing that. It takes all kinds. Most veterans I know enjoy helping an enthusiastic rookie (yes, for free). We remember the kind veterans who helped us along in our first 3 or 4 years.